What do you consider to be well off?

[Namechangestimes100]

What do you consider to be well off, for ease let’s say outside of London?

DH and I (early 30s) combined earn 85k base salaries (we get annual bonuses but as these aren’t a given and vary, can’t really include) We are most certainly not rolling in it. When I started working, 85k combined seemed like a lot, but with the increases in the cost of living, I do find myself worrying about money often, esp when i go back to work and we’ll have 2 kids in childcare . The 30 free hrs, doesn’t amount to a lot at all when split over the year with food+ nappies on top.

so i think well off probably over £100k a year?

what do you consider well off? For me it’s no money worries, you don’t worry about money.

( just because MN this is in no way a ‘brag’ post)

100%

we also have very meagre pension pots

Why 2 households? Just being 👃

Regarding disposable income, that’s not totally the whole story. Someone earning £100000 per year could afford a bigger mortgage, buy nicer cars etc and have £500 left over per month. Someone on £35000 may have a smaller mortgage, not send their kids to private school and have £500 per month left over. Same disposable income after all the bills are paid , but the first person is definantly better off.

I don't think it's a number. If you can with your income pay all your outgoings and buy everyday items when you want to (in comparison to only when necessary) without much thought and not necessarily the cheapest item. And still have left overs for pension, savings and investments.

@tothemoonandbackbuses has it. To
me it isn’t about the money. It’s about peace of mind and income exceeding expenditure. Some households will manage this on £30k pa: others on £130k.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” ~ David Copperfield

Of course you are well off. Childcare costs are short term for a few years and then you will still have your decent salaries. These kinds of threads are so irritating to those who are so far from ever being likely to earn what you do.

Exactly. You can't claim to be 'not well off' because your disposable income is low due to a large mortgage, expensive childcare options, car payments for a luxury car etc etc, because your choices are buying nicer/more convenient versions than what someone on a much lower income will be able to afford.

Their version is likely to look like renting their home, or buying in a less desirable area and/or a smaller property, childminders, family help or working opposite shifts to cover childcare instead of a nanny or private nursery and a loan for a small second hand rather than a PCP arrangement on 4x4 or Tesla.

No wage can indicate how well off someone is!

I have seen people earning over 100k and have debt upto their eyeballs, so someone earning 50k with no debt is actually better off than the person earning 100k.

But you can't claim to be 'not well off' because you have even higher expectations than you can afford on your high income.

If you think you should be able to afford a house in Central London, own rooms with double beds for both DC, a Nanny, a £200 pw grocery bill and expensive clothes, accessories, haircuts and treatments it doesn't mean you're not well off if your income doesn't stretch to these things.

Conversely, just because someone else is happy living in a small terraced house in a low cost area, with both DC sharing a bedroom with (gasp!) single beds and a £100 pw grocery bill it doesn't make them better off because their much lower income actually covers for their far lower expectations.

I would say we're 'well off'. We've paid our way through about £25k of fertility treatment and can generally buy what we want without thinking too much about the cost. But then other things we are more reserved on like our cars are second hand cheapie things and we don't do holidays abroad very often (every 4 years or so). We got lucky on our first house to make money on it to buy a big house. Probably the biggest factor for me is that I come from a 'well off' family so always had a safety net and had help along the way to get on our feet.

We are generally good at budgeting and saving, and are not particularly extravagant people but also really aware that our lifestyle is very privileged and try to be as generous as possible with the money we have.

As a benchmark, I think if you have enough income to cover life costs plus some luxuries like subscriptions, plus leftover to save up for expensive things (holidays, new bathroom etc) and you can live in a home suitable for your needs and don't have to worry too much what your weekly shop will cost then you're well off.

Anything more than that like lots of holidays, private school, a home bigger than you need, expensive cars etc I would say would be rich rather than well off.

It all depends we have a fairly good annual income but a lot of outgoings so I am looking for full time work. I think anything over 50k is good salary where we are in the Midlands, not so much down South. Over 100k is great but a lot of money disappears in tax.

Two people earning lower wages seems to be better.

Supports his mother and her household. Has done since he was 17. He’s always been a grafter and she’s always been a selfish woman 🙃 (it’s a sore spot)

I think it's not having to worry about heating, eating etc plus other 'luxuries'
Wwhen I was married, over ten years ago, We were very comfortable as in I never had to worry about those things, or paying for school foreign trips (skiing / New York) and things our kids needed/wanted. Bought only organic food. We could entertain family and friends whenever we wanted without thinking about the cost of feeding 10 people!
My daughter had a pony and my son got whatever new trainers and PS:Xbox games he wanted! We could pay for a tutor for 11+ for them both.
We could pay for their driving lessons and first cars.
We could accept every invitation to go out or away from family and friends, holidayed abroad twice a year plus lots of Uk weekend breaks.
I only worked part time once I had children.
No debt apart from small mortgage as we first bought aged 25.
I'm now divorced, the kids are grown so no maintenance and it's a very different lifestyle for me, but I'm mortgage free at 51 so no major outgoings. I still consider myself lucky, although I do have to think about heating and food costs now and buy only really from charity shops and boot sales. But my kids are grown and pay for themselves.

Ps our household income, ten years ago was about £90k. Him full time and me part time.
Mines now 17!

I heard somewhere that people thought being wealthy was three times what they're on now. Actually I think it was how much money it would take to make you happy.

What I mean though, is that it is possible to consider yourself well off without the house in Central London, etc. if you have no desire for those things - and you have choices for what you do want or need and the time to enjoy those things. Perhaps the most succinct is:

Choice + Time = Being well off

It Was in outer London if that makes a difference.

Has anyone else done the ifs comparison?

i consider myself not well off at all. Yet 13pc are worse off than me! That has shocked me a bit.
but then I have a mortgage and a car but no luxuries.

i guess it’s all about priorities. Some will want a fancy car and others big holidays or save.

I think I am well off. I am a lone parent with a 23 and 13 yo. 23 is a student.
I have a low mortgage, can afford everything we need, and more.
My salary is A LOT less than 85K.

I think for me it's that my salary has increased but I have not moved house, nor upgraded the sort of car I drive or the sorts of holidays we have.

I think I am more content than a couple I know who are (in their words) "on their knees" with tiredness and juggling work and kids (mid teens) yet have a fancy house which they are always having improvements done to, drive 2 pretty new high end cars, and are always spending.

If a friend messages and invites you to meet up in a cafe and you say yes without worrying about the cost then I would say you are well off.

If you spend more on an item of everyday clothing for one or two occasions than an entire primark outfit for a season then I would think you are well off.

Running two households, definitely well off, if not then maybe make do with one like the majority of the population.

Being able to afford private medical care to avoid the NHS wait, well off.

And never having to check the bank account!
I have to check daily now.

Why is he contributing to his mothers household? How many are in her household?

I think it depends on life stage. We are young enough to have not benefited from massive house price increases and to still have kids in nursery so an income that feels like it should make us feel well off doesn't, especially compared to friends who may have a similar or lower household income but have much nicer houses due to buying at the right time and still have the same sort of disposable income.

I would say well off means not needing to worry about money and, for me, that's probably a household income of over £200k to afford an (ever more expensive) 4 bed with a garden plus a decent lifestyle around it and that's figured out based on when our kids are at school so we're not paying full time nursery. It feels absolutely mad that much is needed but, if we'd bought 5 years earlier, I think we'd be at that same stage on an income of maybe £140k purely because of the equity.

The more you earn the more your outgoings though. Ore pandemic we have a household gross income over £100,000 pa and has recently moved house, bought a better car etc etc. if we were on lower income we wouldn't have moved so prob would have had similar "leisure" money.

And of course there's the fact that the more hours you do the more you spend on childcare!

Still I would have said we were well off as now we have the same mortgage with half the income!

Your income appears to make you well off as it's massive. Your outgoing might change that picture though that depends on whether they are essential or not. Housing costs in modest house - essential. Posher or larger house, expensive cars, ponies, travel abroad, private tutors - luxury.