Health Visitor turned up after I declined appointment

[AliceBeazley]

So, the Health Visitor. I understand it can be a valuable service to some, and it's good we have this available to us if we need it.

That said, I've never really felt the need myself. I had a visit from one once or twice after my first son was born, and she was very nice but it wasn't especially useful and just took up my time when I would rather have been doing something else.

Whenever I've been sent an appointment, I've gone through the checklist and never had any concerns. I've also got various books on child development in the early years and am proactive about checking whether milestones are being met. I've therefore cancelled all HV appointments that have been sent, and other than the office staff seeming a little puzzled, I've never had an issue doing this.

Roll on to baby number 2. I declined the checks from the start, other than arranging for the HV to come and weigh him when he was a few weeks old. When the 1 year check appointment came through I called the office and cancelled again. The woman said she would pass the message on to the HV.

The HV called and left a message to say she had my message and that's fine, but she could come and do another weigh if I wanted to, yada yada yada.

Feeling the matter was resolved, I forgot about it.

This morning the HV turned up at the door for the 9-12 month check. I explained it had been cancelled, and she sort of made noises as if that was a surprise. I said hang on, did you say your name was "Emma", wasn't it you who left a message for me to acknowledge I'd cancelled. She then said "Yes but as I said, it would be nice to meet you both". I said "Well there's lots of people it would be nice to meet, but you can't just turn up at people's doors uninvited". It was this point she obviously could tell I was annoyed at her intrusion and decides to scuttle off again.

I'm pretty annoyed by this to be honest. She knew I wasn't interested but she tried to disregard my wishes and try and come in anyway. I know a lot of people think HV appointments are mandatory and they don't do anything to point out the contrary. I feel like she just wanted to railroad me into letting her in whether I wanted to see her or not. This tactic probably works on some. I have to say I find it quite disturbing that someone acting on behalf of a government funded organisation can decide to turn up at your house and ask to see your children and intrude upon your privacy without any mandate or justification. As if the state knows better than me and I am unable to opt out.

Am I being unreasonable? I feel like complaining about this as its a complete overstep. I've no idea who to complain to or if it would even do any good. I'd appreciate other's thoughts on it. TIA.

I also thought HV visits unnecessary.
However, my HV noticed that my DD had a slightly sticking out ear on one side qnd advised to see my GP. Though initially taking umbridge at this, (oh PFB) I took DD to GP thinking it was nothing. Turned out after seeing several consultants to be craniosynostosis for which DD needed major cranial surgery.
GP equally thought it was nothing btw, just referred on to be sure...

Totally agree with @NumberTheory here.

People need to think really hard about who is responsible for their children -parents or government/state? So many people on here are advocating a Chinese/USSR-style system where the government/state has greater authority over children than parents.

Our system says parents are responsible for children. This provides huge protection for the vast majority of children.

Do you really want to hand that to the government/state?

Terrible wicked things that are unusual and a tiny proportion of normality tend to make the newspapers.

Regrettably what went on in a notorious maternity unit was not making the news.

The question is whether the universal use of HVs to identify vanishingly small numbers of abuse are disproportionate. And abuse that could be picked up in 9 months of pregnancy due to the identification of at risk women and babies by GPs and maternity staff.

In a system where resources are scarce, it is not a good use of those resources to provide a universal service that many women neither want nor need.

Let's also be clear that some of what the HV does is commissioned by CCGs via GPs and too often those GPs and commissioners have a scant regard for quality and value for money.

It would actually be really helpful to have some absolute clarity about the roles and responsibilities of HVs and clear expectations of what they provide with the implementation of service level agreements for both commissioners and families.

The actual real GPs that I used to work with, frequently referred mothers and babies to the HV team. They also asked the HVs for their opinion about issues with babies and children. GPs are general practitioners and they recognise the expertise HVs have in their specialty.

Most people haven’t got a clue about the level of safeguarding issues in our communities. I worked a caseload of families in an inner city and I had over 50 families who were open to safeguarding. There were five other HVs in my team, each with a similar number of families. There were eight other teams in the city. The maths shows a horrific number of children at risk.

@dollymuchymuchness out of how many children in the CITY? It’s a ridiculously clunky expensive and ineffectual service. If GPs genuinely need HV to treat infants (which sounds implausible) then perhaps that’s because HV are gatekeeping GPs access to infants because how else would they have this gaping hole in their experience. My GP used to work as a paediatrician so I’m guessing she might not need HV support.🙄

Just doing her job. As PP have said, repeatedly cancelled appointments can be a sign of parents trying to hide something. I feel so sorry for social workers and health visitors, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. And yes, sounds like you were fairly rude to someone who is just doing her job.

I'd be interested to know what kinds of things your HV was saying to you. I'm going through a bad experience of a HV currently. Keeps telling me there could be things wrong with baby, to take him to the GP. I keep doing as she asks, and GP looks at me like I'm mad. That there's no issue as she claims.

The HV service and GPs enjoy a close working partnership. HVs run child health clinics, which anyone can attend for advice, weighing and prescriptions. This is how it is. I have nothing to gain from posting information that isn’t true.

I’ve had GPs, hospital doctors and paediatricians on my caseload. Parents of new babies are new parents, regardless of their profession and doctors are no different. They usually have even more questions than anyone else.

@carefullycourageous Yeah, you're right of course. Some of them are muppets!

I don’t have any faith in the ones I've had personally, although I can't speak for all as I'm sure there are some good ones.

I had the same woman for both DS and DD. With DS, my concerns about autism were downplayed and the can kicked down the road. She refused to refer us to paediatrics so I went over her head and go the GP who referred straight away after listening to my concerns and observing DS. He was subsequently diagnosed as being severely autistic.

After having DD I was having a nervous breakdown with PTSD and PND after her birth caused me to almost lose my life and spend weeks in the hospital. When she came to visit I was upfront about my mental state and said I was very traumatised and scared, she simply said "see your GP" and didn't bother to follow up with me to make sure I had.

With hindsight I think she was negligent as I definitely needed some support and would have benefitted from being referred for some, even a few extra visits from her would have been welcome.

I struggled on for the next few months then accessed therapy myself but it could have ended very differently.

@dollymuchymuchness indeed but the previous poster asked a factual question in oder to reach a decision about the veracity of your statement. You have not provided a straight answer. I shall repeat, what is the population of your city please?

One point that I don't think has really been mentioned is work. I declined a check (2 year maybe?) because I was at work om the days the HV was available and I wasn't going to take time off given I had no concerns. Child was in nursery and I've previously worked as a Reception teacher so had an idea about child development. It was during lockdown so they couldn't weigh or measure her, just assess her progress.

@jewishmum her primary concern was that dd was 25th percentile and she seemed unable to comprehend that she was staying at the 25th percentile. She was breast fed and followed her line. I think it was a bit of a power trip for her. She insisted we attend weekly weigh ins and threatened to make me ff if she didn’t put on more weight. I was so worried about the baby, even willing to stop bfing if it was needed but she always told me she’d “let me try one more week”. Eventually I went to the GP and burst into tears. By a stroke of good luck the GP DID know a fair bit about babies and had a 5th percentile baby of her own. I never saw the woman again.
There were other things too but the feeding was the most demoralising. I’m fairly confident I understand stats so her lack of basic comprehension on the growth charts was confusing and she was a HV so I was worried she was right despite the evidence. It was a long time ago now though she will have retired long ago.

@jewishmum I completely concur with their incomprehension of the stats. Mine told me the 50th centile was average. I think one has to assume they're just not kosher

Apologies I conflated Jewishmum with 5zeds.

While that may or may not be a shocking percentage of children under safeguarding, it has no bearing on the appropriateness or effectiveness of an HV rocking up to a cancelled appointment with someone who isn't under safeguarding.

I think you need to take a step back from your privileged position and consider there are other women who very much need someone to come to their door and check they’re ok. Because they’re not. You shouldn’t have been rude to the HV, there was no need.

I think your entitled to feel like the HV was intrusive but to complain against her OP??? And say what exactly.

Just leave it.

Not pestering women who don't want to pestered means then they have more time for those who want or need the "service" I'd have thought. One of the ones attached to my GP service wasn't even clean. Always had greasy dirty hair and generally looked as though she needed a good wash. And the head of the HV Association had the audacity to say the role of the HV was to teach the three C's; one of which was cleanliness. Another was communication and that pretty pooey too.

I would venture that HVs practice what they preach.

They have no cause for concern because nothing has happened that has caused concern for anyone. OP hasn't, as far as we know, told them anything at all.

We do not have a system where the State gets to peer into our homes and judge all our actions. Despite the occasional tragic case, this is as it should be. Pressure on parents and the damage done by applying one size fits all ideas about parenting to families that are otherwise working well will far out weight a few missed cases of abuse. Not to mention the added expense that can't then be spent on other things - like mental health care for children who are struggling, or actual support for families that ask for it.

I think you need to take a step back from your privileged position and consider there are other women who very much need someone to come to their door and check they’re ok. Because they’re not. You shouldn’t have been rude to the HV, there was no need. this is the sort of thinking that makes life so difficult for non white British people. There are some non white people in expensive cars/neighbourhoods who are robbers so the police should just “check” and how dare they not accept it! How dare they look pissed off or be “rude” to the cops “just doing their job”.

@AliceBeazley Did nothing wrong. She had a baby and cancelled an appointment she didn’t make, with a service she didn’t think would be of benefit to her or her child. The HV turned up without warning and expected her to comply because so many women especially new mothers allow others to treat them with an utter disregard for their autonomy. I would question if it is really in the best interest of women to be trained to accept this behaviour. It seems the very opposite of what babies really need. Babies need their mothers to be strong and confident and able to advocate for them even when it’s awkward and “not what everyone else is doing”

I think you need to take a step back from your privileged position and consider there are other women who very much need someone to come to their door and check they’re ok. Because they’re not. You shouldn’t have been rude to the HV, there was no need.

isn't the OP taking away the services from someone who my need it in this case? She doesn't need or want a HV, so let's have someone who might need them more use them?

Yes, that's right. Nothing Has Happened.

What a bizarre remark. So because nothing has happened, all is ok. You do know that Nothing Happens ...Until It Happens.

There are children at risk tonight and quite honestly, it is the duty of the state to check. That's because, in the real world, some parents are incompetent and some act with malice aforethought.

If that means that out of the thousand visits a HV makes, she uncovers just one child at risk then bloody good and tough shit to all those who, like the OP, are insulted because they once read a book on parenting.

Who cares about her finer feelings. The HV's duty is to the child and to those many, many children who are at risk from their own parents.

The child is more important than the parent and every one of should open the door to the HV, knowing that if we refuse or even complain then some child, some where is going to be neglected or even abused because we take away the child's right to have their parent checked.

So, away and feel your head @NumberTheory . The child comes before the right of some parent to refuse. ALWAYS.

@5zeds
The HV turned up without warning and expected her to comply because so many women especially new mothers allow others to treat them with an utter disregard for their autonomy. I would question if it is really in the best interest of women to be trained to accept this behaviour. It seems the very opposite of what babies really need. Babies need their mothers to be strong and confident and able to advocate for them even when it’s awkward and “not what everyone else is doing”

^^ This. Absolutely and very much this. Babies need strong, confident mothers not women constantly wondering if they pleasing someone else enough and have jumped through enough hoops today.