My Ukrainian refugee visitors on way back to Ukraine

[HoofWankingSpangleCunt]

And I'm sitting in my lovely, peaceful garden sobbing.

They'd been here a week on a family visa but the hospital where she works have now told her that my new friend that her three week holiday allowance is up and if she doesn't go back she'll lose her job. As a cardiac doctor her speciality is in demand, as you can imagine. They'd been out of Lviv for two weeks by the time they got to me as it took that long for the visa.

I'm telling myself it's only Lviv, they can come back anytime but watching a woman and her two small boys climbing into the taxi for the airport for a flight to a country under invasion has just about undone me.

It's so fucking wrong.

l think we are going to see lots more similar threads to this, last thing refugees need is the host parading them around like celebrities and plastering every last minute detail of their predicament all over social media, not saying you are guilty of this OP, l am sure your intentions were well meant, but alot are, which begs the question what is their own agenda in all of this ?

The OP's visitors weren't refugees.

@HoofWankingSpangleCunt

((HUG)). It's very difficult to watch people you care about go back into a dangerous situation. It's natural to be upset, even if you understand why they're doing it.

Those of us with half a brain understand how you'd have 'coped' with them & DD coming home but that it's different with new strangers.

You've given them a lovely safe break, I'm so sorry you lost your parents relatively recently & they didn't get to see her & the chikdten, though I can imagine how distressed your parents would have been to think of him still there.

I hope they stay safe & things work out for them all. It would be lovely to hear from you, when you hear from her.

Take care of yourself. This place has changed loads, but there are still plenty of people who are great, you just have to ignore the twats!!

I’m actually surprised by how heartless some of the comments here are. She’s still going back into a country experiencing horrendous war crimes daily.

It must have been hard to see them go Op.

I think this post highlights the reality for a lot of Ukrainians. You are landed in a country where you probably don't speak the language very well, you don't know the culture, it's probably very expensive to live and most importantly it is always going to be temporary. You aren't making a life in the new country, you are just filling the gap until you can move home again. I don't see how some people can't see that if you believe parts of your home country are safe you would rather be there and continue your life.

I know lots of people think that everyone wants to live in the UK or I'm in Ireland and everyone thinks it is great here and Ukrainians should be grateful to us but realistically how many of us would want to move somewhere that you are never going to allowed to stay, have your children's education interrupted, struggle with the huge cost of living, have very little or no family support when you believe parts of home are safe and you are going to have to go back home in a year or 2 anyway? It isn't a black and white situation, every option is hard and I don't blame the people who choose the familiar.

Bizarre choice to flee with her children and then choose to bring them back to the exact same situation she fled from.

her mother is there @TheYearOfSmallThings
you can't blame her

@JulesRimetStillGleaming

This is hard for her. I work in the NHS and our head of department has already said that we'll snap up any healthcare professionals that come over from Ukraine as we struggle to recruit. She would've probably walked into a job here. But she has a loyalty to care for her fellow citizens and contribute to the war in her own way, which is so admirable.

I feel more sorry for the children. War is horrendous.

I guess your HoD hasn't got much experience of international medical recruitment then? I have, and it's not quite that simple. It used to be relatively straightforward to recruit from the EU (not sure about even that now) but from outside the EU is much more complicated. Aside from the issues around the right to work that would apply to anyone new to the country, there is a detailed and potentially protracted process for doctors qualified in other countries wishing to become registered with the GMC. Medical degrees from some Ukrainian universities aren't currently recognised so depending on when and where she qualified it could be a complete non starter. Even if the doctor in question has a registerable degree she would have to pass both parts of the PLAB exam, covering English and clinical abilities before she could apply for registration. That isn't going to be easy for someone with little English and will take time - possibly years. Once the exams are passed there is a fair bit of suppporting evidence that needs to be provided at that stage too. Even once registered, getting work permits etc can take ages, which is hugely frustrating for both the prospective employer and employee. It's not impossible of course, but it's not quick or easy. Not sure about other professions but I would imagine there's some similar kind of process for nursing and the allied professions. No matter how desperate the employer or how worthy the candidate, the process for registration has to remain robust.

her mother is there @TheYearOfSmallThings*
you can't blame her*

My mother would pitch a fit if I brought her grandchildren to a warzone just because she was there.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

Bizarre choice to flee with her children and then choose to bring them back to the exact same situation she fled from.

But it’s not the exact same situation. 3 weeks ago there was more of a possibility the Russians might have managed to advance west across the country, the Ukrainian army has pretty decisively turned that round and Putin’s war plans seem to be more focused on the east and south now.

There’s still bombing much more widely but that’s not the same as the threat of occupation with all that implies.

We are still waiting for our guests who are from Kyiv but currently in Poland (applied 4 weeks ago today, there are no words for what I think of the Home Office). When they come I don’t know how long they will need to stay. Ideal is complete safety for the kids and our friend is a university lecturer whose university is currently teaching online, which he will be able to do from here, so he might be in the fortunate position of being able to stay longer while still earning an income and having a job to go back to than someone whose job can’t be done remotely. If the war finishes soon and his university isn’t damaged they might be able to go home in weeks, if the buildings aren’t there any more and Kyiv gets bombed some more who knows? All we can do is make them welcome for as long or short as they need.

Once they have actually got their visas… 😢

Not all of it is a war zone and the majority of Ukrainians have stayed in their country. I would want to stay in my home country and I’d absolutely despise living in someone’s spare room in a country where I couldn’t speak the language and where I couldn’t work.

@butterpuffed

Apparently, 30,000 Ukrainians are returning to their country every day. It's just as unsafe there now as it was when they left so unsure as to why.

Most are returning to East Ukraine. Many living there are used to military exercises that Russia has carried out in their areas for the last 8 years (that we basically ignored) and see the war as a manageable extension of this (an understandable if erroneous view)

Many returning had gone to Poland & are now returning. There's no meaningful opportunities for them & they want to go home, and in many cases, reunite with their husbands.

I can't understand people who ask, 'why didn't she leave her children?' As if any of us would.

You can’t claim to be desperate and in fear of losing your life if you just up and go back.

I think you underestimate the feeling for & commitment to her country, which is being invaded; and to her fellow citizens, who need her skills.

I'm trying to imagine what I'd do if Britain were invaded. I'd do whatever I could to stay & fight, or support those fighting.

@LegMeChicken

Surely a cardiac surgeon can find another job? What’s the issue with ‘losing’ this?

You can’t claim to be desperate and in fear of losing your life if you just up and go back.

Honestly can you not reflect on this awfully unempathetic comment? The woman is seeing her country obliterated and entire families of her countrymen murdered moment by moment, and she is a cardigan surgeon battling with her thoughts as to where she should be? Regardless of her decision as a mother and a medic and a Ukrainian, surely we can do better than 'huh, why doesn't she just get a job here?'

@TheYearOfSmallThings

Bizarre choice to flee with her children and then choose to bring them back to the exact same situation she fled from.

Why is it bizarre?

Not that I can imagine what it's like for those fleeing, but I can absolutely imagine going back to my country - my home - having left temporarily, if I felt it had become (even marginally) safer.

I think the hospital she works for should be utterly ashamed of themselves, threatening this poor woman with the sack because she's used up her 3 weeks annual leave fleeing the country with her child!!

Bastards.

@VyeBrator

I think the hospital she works for should be utterly ashamed of themselves, threatening this poor woman with the sack because she's used up her 3 weeks annual leave fleeing the country with her child!!

Bastards.

Oh yeah, I’m sure they’re not under absolutely tremendous pressure what with the country being at war and everything. Ffs, I think employment regs go out of the window a little bit when you are dealing with circumstances like that. And most jobs you can’t take a long break and expect to keep it as the employer can’t afford to keep the job open for you. Anyway, if she stayed in the UK, she’d de facto lose her job anyway because she wouldn’t be working in it would she? Look, this is an intelligent woman and I doubt she’s rushing back just on the back of what the employer said. She has extended family there, she doesn’t speak English, she’s living in someone’s spare room on a temporary basis. She’s obviously weighed it all up and decided what is best for her and the family.

@JulesRimetStillGleaming my cousin is an intensive care nurse who speaks 3 languages aside from Ukrainian. My aunt speaks 3 languages and is a university professor with previous medical background.

I can assure you that as intelligent women they have looked into the NHS option and found it insurmountable for a variety of reasons. The aunt is actually off to Ireland with her teaching qualification for now. The cousin home.

I speak 4 languages and I agree with those saying just learning another in your 40s isn’t the same thing, especially to use professionally. Once it was easier, it’s not now.

If you have kids too you can’t dither around for years starving either while you learn and wait.

Safe is a lot lot more than ‘no bombs are on my house’. It’s enough food, a future, hope,family unity. Would you want to move to a Croft on a remote Scottish Ireland just to be super safe? No pollution? Zero invasion risk? Or would you feel there’s other relevant factors in your life beyond ‘safe right now from attack’?

@Honestopinion23 I agree with most of what you are saying. Apart from NHS would not sack you in a situation like that though... I've witnessed many colleagues have time off for various things. Obviously we don't know how the companies operate in Eukraine.

@TheYearOfSmallThings it’s not the same thing. A few months ago people in Lviv feared occupation and street fighting. It’s not happened and doesn’t look likely either. So why not return if that was your fear?
Most my relatives are near Lviv. There’s food, fuel and they are going to work each day as normal. Even in Kyiv, whilst they say to wait until May to return, the metro is back on, most buses, enough shops and schooling is accessible

You can’t claim to be desperate and in fear of losing your life if you just up and go back.

You absolutely can. It's really common for refugees to want to return to rebuild their home country. This woman's skills will be in demand at home, and her work is obviously keen to have her back. She's in an incredibly difficult situation and has made a very brave decision. More power to her. I hope that she and her children stay safe.

Most my relatives are near Lviv. There’s food, fuel and they are going to work each day as normal. Even in Kyiv, whilst they say to wait until May to return, the metro is back on, most buses, enough shops and schooling is accessible

I think most people either genuinely done understand this part of it. Or are just deciding to ignore it

What DID she think would happen when she left the hospital, the job, the country?

Doesn't her childrens' safety matter more?

@2bazookas

What DID she think would happen when she left the hospital, the job, the country?

Doesn't her childrens' safety matter more?

No she clearly doesn't give a shit about her children Ffs she is an educated woman who has clearly weighed up the pros and cons of a shitty situation and picked the path she feels will be least harmful. She will know far better than us how safe her children will be there, how much they will benefit from her working, being at home, being with family. Nobody knew in the beginning how things were going to pan out, I'm quite sure she is doing her very best at a time of great hardship.

@2bazookas

What DID she think would happen when she left the hospital, the job, the country?

Doesn't her childrens' safety matter more?

Quite possibly she didn’t have a crystal ball to know which way the war would go? If you have perhaps you could let President Zelensky know.