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Ukraine Invasion: Part 21

1003 replies

MagicFox · 16/04/2022 21:01

Another thread, thank you to all

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
Natsku · 18/04/2022 16:19

Hope mnhq bring back bringbackcoffeecream's post, I want to read it too.

notimagain · 18/04/2022 16:25

[quote DuncinToffee]Modern tech Grin

A Ukrainian man has been tracking the movement of Russian troops after a soldier pillaged the wireless headphones from his home.

www.thedailybeast.com/apple-find-my-helps-ukrainian-vitaliy-semenets-track-russian-troops-with-looted-airpods-near-kyiv[/quote]
Been rumours of a bit of that going sort of thing going on

If something radiates anything at all in the EM spectrum then all sorts of info can get out there Shock

Different kit and wavelength involved but a Blush previous example of the risks of this sort of thing here:

www.businessinsider.com/secret-us-military-bases-world-strava-heat-map-operational-security-compromised-fitness-trackers-2018-1?r=US&IR=T#:~:text=An%20interactive%20heat%20map%20from,stands%20the%20most%20to%20lose.

BreadInCaptivity · 18/04/2022 16:39

@prettybird

I for one appreciate your posts *@MMBaranova* Thanks - I was going to say that earlier and I say it now even more strongly SmileThanks

Likewise.

DuncinToffee · 18/04/2022 17:37

Max Seddon

Putin has given an honorary title to one of the units Ukraine says slaughtered civilians in Bucha.

He thanked the 64th Motor Rifle Brigade for their "mass heroism protecting the fatherland, Russia's sovereignty, and its national interests" in Ukraine.

twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1516081920626544640?t=grMAOC6h9nzQP9vZ6ZovSg&s=19

DuncinToffee · 18/04/2022 17:39

Jack Detsch @JackDetsch

U.S. expects to begin training Ukrainian military on American-provided Howitzer artillery systems outside of the country "in the next few days": senior U.S. defense official

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2022 17:53

I wasn't going to post this, but it links with a second tweet I've just seen so I think it worth while for a few reasons:

Canadian Ukrainian Volunteer @CanadianUkrain1

Regarding #Kherson:

I know everyone is eagerly waiting for the news of a full-scale offensive on Kherson, especially those who are IN occupied Kherson. We know things are not easy for you.

Having said that, the main difficulty is the terrain. Open horizon to horizon, with barely any defilades for infantry, let alone mechanized equipment. So the plan, for now, is simple - we continue to drain #Russian ammo supplies, equipment, deprive them of sleep at night, raid their lines, and in general degrade their combat ability until an opportunity presents itself. It always does.

Then, several things will happen at once, but discussing them here and now would be bad for business.

So you guys hold on, follow your local trustworthy information groups on Telegram, and stay alert. You are not forgotten.

The notable things for me, is the stress put on being patient and picking the right moment, rather than rushing in because of an emotional desire to. There's some speculation that the attack on the Moskva was planned for a while and they waited patiently until the right moment.

The second thing for me, isn't the logistics this time - although thats relevant and clearly where Ukraine is thinking strategically across all fronts, its the emphasis on the lack of sleep the Russians are getting.

Which brings me to this which I've just seen:

Jimmy @JimmySecUK
An intercepted conversation between a Russian contract soldier and a woman in Russia discussing extremely high losses the Russians are taking in Ukraine.

The soldier's regiment has apparently taken 600 casualties from a pre-war strength of 1000 men.
twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1516083508720160772

The conversation was apparently recorded in the Mykolaiv region (A lot of the counter offensives into Kherson are in the Mykolaiv region). There isn't a date on when it was recorded:

M: Our regiment has the biggest losses, dammit.
W: On our side?
M: Yes. Almost all gone... There were 1000 something people, its about 400 left of us.
W: Oh My! From Our Unit?
M: Yes. I already told this, dammit. When I entered the battle... As soon as fing popped out, I told them sort of 'cover me'. As I venture out, fking bullets fly over my head. I'm like 'Fk!, Get it? Sort of, they see me, but I don't see them. I'm like, 'its fked' and get fking back. Where we say, as soon as we left the place, a fking shell hit right that spot. Then, when we started to run, 'grad' started shelling. You know what 'grad', 'katyusha' [rocket launchers] are?
W: Yes, yes.
M: We started to run. Fking 'grad' starts to shell our asses! We fking managed to fking get away!
W: Oh my!
M: And then artillery is shelling us from there. On the other side, over the railway they run to the forest. So they are encircling us. They start fking shooting from there. I'm like, 'we're in a fking ring', I think.
W: Oh my!
M: I was f
king running, I don't know, all the time.
W: At least, you can run fast. That's good.
M: I Fking hide, run, back and forth, cover, dammit. Let's say there were so many troops, shtloads of us, and me and a guy covered all out troops, dammit.
W: How are you, in general?
M: I am starting to go nuts.
W: Going mad?
M: I want to go home. It's like a wave hits me. By day, I'm ok, in the evening - it's sht. When the night comes, it's the worst.
W: Are you going to break or extend it [the contract]?
M: If we are going here for the second time, then - no. F
k it. I'll terminate the contact at once. I'm not going here second time.

Obviously this is explicitly pro-Ukrainian propaganda.

However I do think both of the above are interesting, especially when you put into the context of each other, the knocking out of the Moskva - which takes out a lot of Russian air coverage in the area (especially because the Ukrainians keep taking out Chornobaivka airfield) and that other report of the Russians from different units fighting each other.

It also explicitly represents the contract solider issue, which is thought to be lending itself to a formal declaration of war by Russia.

The Canadian Ukrainian Volunteer references depriving the Russians of sleep, to make them go nuts and you have a Russian bluntly spelling out how he's going nuts at night. Two sides to the same coin.

Now this could just be a deliberate strategy in propaganda for the Ukrainians purely to keep up morale and maybe buy a little time to regroup / ease public and political pressure to move in on Kherson.

However the other evidence seems to back up this being more than just propaganda, and is an incite as to what the Ukrainians are doing and how the Russians are coping with it (Also, flip it and you've maybe got Mariupol and some reasoning as to why many of the 36th felt that they had to surrender). Its a reflection not just of the physical tactics but the psychological ones.

I think I would have just read these and scrolled on, if they hadn't dovetailed together quite so neatly and also fitted with others jigsaw pieces.

It sounds to me like the Ukrainians might be waiting and seeing what happens and whether the Russians might break mentally before they do physically and perhaps have reason to think that may be imminent. There is also an awareness that Ukraine can't afford to just charge in, because its suicidal.

Further more it perhaps offers an glimpse as to why sending troops back to Ukraine who were withdrawn from the North is a) incredibly difficult in terms of numbers but more b) cos their heads have turned to jelly from combat experience and they are now 'ineffective' troops as a result.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2022 18:07

@MMBaranova

>How do you tell from a photo if someone is "well behaved and disciplined" ?

Well with a VIDEO (and there are a lot of them) you see their actions in a range of settings over time and hear what is being said.

As for a photo. Um, not sure. Do YOU have an answer to that? It was your question.

So before I get the shaming dump on me again, as someone who is a defender of Ukrainian independence, was present (briefly) at Euromaidan before Christmas 2013 , sends money to relatives in Ukraine (in the free parts and in the Russian occupied), sends money to relief charities and to support the Ukrainian war effort in the hope that it kills Russian soldiers, and as a mother, let me tell you what I do here on Mumsnet. I can get my to a reasonable extent in Ukrainian and Russian and know some of the locations that feature in the news. I sometimes dip into Russian media and social media to see what it says is going on. There's a lot of propaganda, ultra-nationalist sounding off and, despite phones officially being banned for Russian troops, some interesting from the ground reports, photos and videos.

Early this morning I spent a couple of hours poking around with three questions in mind, seeing what was fairly easy to stumble upon to suggest some partial answers. One of my answers is that there are clearly different levels of behaviour and discipline on the Russian side. How it breaks down percentagewise and whether one switches from brutal rapist and murderer mode to calm professional soldier and back again is something I can't say.

One image I posted was a grab I made from a video that showed older soldiers who seemed coherent and well turned out showing off captured NATO munitions. I tend to not post more than one image and it was illustrative. I could have linked videos a range of videos but life is too short to feed everything in.

I follow Trent Telenko, Phillips OBrien et al already so the pastes of their output on here aren't anything new to me. I see if I can turn over a stone that hasn't had so much scrutiny.

The Russian stuff is good. There's only a certain amount non-Russian speakers can do (though the translate feature on twitter / googletranslate is a godsend). I'm stuck to a certain extent by following Russian watchers rather than being able to do it myself. Plus there is a lot more on Telegram which isn't on twitter because its much more Russian/Ukrainian centred whereas twitter is English language centred.

It not only much needed but much appreciated.

DGRossetti · 18/04/2022 18:10

The Canadian Ukrainian Volunteer references depriving the Russians of sleep, to make them go nuts and you have a Russian bluntly spelling out how he's going nuts at night. Two sides to the same coin.

It's like some ghoulish WW1 tribute war.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2022 18:15

The Times @thetimes (4 hrs ago)
JUST IN: Two British fighters who were captured in Ukraine have appeared on Russian state television and asked to be exchanged for a detained pro-Kremlin politician

They asked to be freed in exchange for Viktor Medvedchuk, a Ukrainian opposition figure who has previously been described as Putin’s right-hand man in Kyiv

RT @RT_com (15mins ago)
Russia state-affiliated media
Viktor Medvedchuk has asked Putin and Zelensky to exchange him for the 'defenders' of Mariupol

(Not going to comment further at this stage).

DGRossetti · 18/04/2022 18:17

(Not going to comment further at this stage).

I will Grin

They asked to be freed in exchange for Viktor Medvedchuk, a Ukrainian opposition figure who has previously been described as Putin’s right-hand man in Kyiv

Not really sure I'd want to be back near Putin after being captured by the Ukrainians. You would never shake off the accusations of treason.

#justsayin

notimagain · 18/04/2022 18:26

"JUST IN: Two British fighters who were captured in Ukraine have appeared on Russian state television and asked to be exchanged for a detained pro-Kremlin politician"

Both were fully legit badged up members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and one is a British/Ukrainian dual national...so they are entitled to some protections by conventions various, though we know how that has worked so far.

Only good news here is that the images provide proof of life/capture.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2022 18:35

Jack Detsch @JackDetsch
NEW: Russian victory in Ukraine's Mariupol – if the city falls – would free up 12 battalion tactical groups to fight in other parts of the country: senior U.S. defense official

These BTGs can't be in great shape.

Btw, the Azovstal steel plant where the defenders are hiding is huge. 11sqkm.

This is footage of the size of it.

If they have the food and water, still might take a while for the Russians. (Has in the back of the mind, Zelensky making a point that he asked Johnson about Mariupol... still not figured out the exact why on this).

TargusEasting · 18/04/2022 18:44

They asked to be freed in exchange for Viktor Medvedchuk, a Ukrainian opposition figure who has previously been described as Putin’s right-hand man in Kyiv

If I were a Ukrainian negotiator it would be a counter offer from me. I would say it is a bad deal and offer two Russians or proxies, for each Ukrainian POW. In the interests of fairness and balance.

Ijsbear · 18/04/2022 18:54

Surely Medvedcheck is worth a LOT of prisoners? including the dual-nationality ones?

DuncinToffee · 18/04/2022 18:58

Meduza Eng
According to a source close to the command of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, 37 crew members died aboard the Moskva — the warship that sank in the Black Sea last week, after it was hit by multiple Ukrainian cruise missiles.
meduza.io/en/feature/2022/04/18/at-least-thirty-seven-dead

Kevin Rothrock
Looks like several of the Russian sailors likely killed aboard the Moskva were draftees. The Defense Ministry is still treating these causalities like they never existed to begin with. I guess there’s always more where they came from.

prettybird · 18/04/2022 19:20

Makes one wonder if Medvedcheck had been slated to be the leader of the puppet regime Putin had been planning on installing had the invasion gone to plan Hmm as opposed to those pesky Unkranuans putting up a fight Wink

jgw1 · 18/04/2022 19:22

@prettybird

Makes one wonder if Medvedcheck had been slated to be the leader of the puppet regime Putin had been planning on installing had the invasion gone to plan Hmm as opposed to those pesky Unkranuans putting up a fight Wink
The Ukrainians aren't putting up a fight. They would welcome their brother in arms Russians if it were not for the US Nazis making them fight each other.
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 18/04/2022 19:49

My post is now unhidden. Order is restored.

K4fkaesque · 18/04/2022 20:07

Bought and paid for:

twitter.com/RSkidelsky/status/1515612394562768898

prettybird · 18/04/2022 20:11

Fortunately I "know" you and your sarcasm @jgw1 Wink - otherwise I'd have jumped on you for that comment Grin

Ijsbear · 18/04/2022 20:12

another high ranker killed:

The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent
·
30m
⚡️Russian landing ship commander killed in Ukraine.

Alexander Chirva, Russia’s 3rd rank captain and commander of the Russian large landing ship Caesar Kunikov, was killed in a battle by Ukrainian forces, Ukrainska Pravda reported, citing Russian government-controlled media.

jgw1 · 18/04/2022 20:14

@Ijsbear

another high ranker killed:

The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent
·
30m
⚡️Russian landing ship commander killed in Ukraine.

Alexander Chirva, Russia’s 3rd rank captain and commander of the Russian large landing ship Caesar Kunikov, was killed in a battle by Ukrainian forces, Ukrainska Pravda reported, citing Russian government-controlled media.

Why would the commander of a landing ship be in a battle if the landing ship was not landing troops and if it was landing troops, why would it do so under fire?
PestorPeston · 18/04/2022 20:17

I think posts can get hidden if they mention atomic, I did a few posts with links to IAEA and they got temporarily hidden.

I'll just add a few more buzz words to check this radiation, fall out, snigger

FatCatThinCat · 18/04/2022 20:21

[quote K4fkaesque]Bought and paid for:

twitter.com/RSkidelsky/status/1515612394562768898[/quote]
The tone of that is awful. Basically, you only exist because we allow you to exist as.

HappyWinter · 18/04/2022 20:21

[quote K4fkaesque]Bought and paid for:

twitter.com/RSkidelsky/status/1515612394562768898[/quote]
I liked this comment: "probably not a good idea to mansplain Finnish security to a load of Finns - especially as the ones on here seem to be rather better informed about geopolitics than people in Britain. Also, care to mention you are a director of Russian oil company Russneft?"

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