Ukraine Invasion: Part 21

[MagicFox]

Another thread, thank you to all

@prettybird

I for one appreciate your posts *@MMBaranova* - I was going to say that earlier and I say it now even more strongly

I do too *@MMBaranova* and I hope your relatives / friends in Ukraine continue to stay safe.

The really weird bit is that @notimagain's post is misleading and therefore quite scary by omission (probably inadvertantly) but is visible to all. DH filled in the gaps which I found somewhat reassuring so shared as I thought others might too, except mine is hidden.

I wonder if MNHQ are using some sort of automatic moderation now as it wasn't hidden after posting, ie like when someone reports a post. It was hidden as soon as I clicked 'post message'. Never seen that happen on here before.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams

The really weird bit is that *@notimagain*'s post is misleading and therefore quite scary by omission (probably inadvertantly) but is visible to all. DH filled in the gaps which I found somewhat reassuring so shared as I thought others might too, except mine is hidden.

I wonder if MNHQ are using some sort of automatic moderation now as it wasn't hidden after posting, ie like when someone reports a post. It was hidden as soon as I clicked 'post message'. Never seen that happen on here before.

Possibly a glitch?

prettybird

I for one appreciate your posts @MMBaranova thanks - I was going to say that earlier and I say it now even more strongly

I have been interested by your posts too.

Also, I am interested in the subject of what is it that means some soldiers can stay in control while others run amok. For example there was an account from a Ukrainian woman who had been raped by a soldier (Bucha?) when four more soldiers came in. She thought she would be raped by them too, but they took the first man away and left. I am very interested in the difference, not for some ‘what-about-the-ones-who-don’t’ reason looking to excuse Russia but because of looking for hope in the human condition.

That was to MMBaranova

@BringBackCoffeeCreams

The really weird bit is that *@notimagain*'s post is misleading and therefore quite scary by omission (probably inadvertantly) but is visible to all. DH filled in the gaps which I found somewhat reassuring so shared as I thought others might too, except mine is hidden.

I wonder if MNHQ are using some sort of automatic moderation now as it wasn't hidden after posting, ie like when someone reports a post. It was hidden as soon as I clicked 'post message'. Never seen that happen on here before.

@mnhq please would you respond and let us know? Thank you

I reported it in case it is just a glitch. I don't want to repost in case it wasn't and I then get banned for being a pain in the arse.

The really weird bit is that @notimagain's post is misleading and therefore quite scary by omission (probably inadvertantly) but is visible to all.

I for one would certainly be interested to know exactly what it was I posted that you considered was misleading or "scary by omission"...

Are there some things we are simply not meant to talk about?

There is some automated moderation in that posts with certain words will get hidden until MNHQ has looked at it. Even if that word is within another word, the moderation is triggered. For example - and this happened a couple of years ago - a post with the word "snaggered" (only it had an "I" in it, rhymes with "tigger" and means "to laugh/titter") was hidden, because the word that is an offensive word for "black" in English was within it.

Not sure if they've fixed that - but I'm not going to risk it!

www.dailysabah.com/business/economy/200000-risk-losing-jobs-in-moscow-over-sanctions-mayor-sobyanin
200,000 risk losing jobs in Moscow over sanctions: Mayor Sobyanin

Thats just from the withdrawal of foreign firms btw.

ETA: Just for clarity/if anybody is wondering I certainly had no involvement and no idea why whatever was posted has been hidden, or indeed any idea of the hidden posts contents...

What's gone on is as much a mystery to me as anybody else.

The thread has gone a bit weird. I hope it gets back on track.

@MMBaranova like reading your posts too

It seems there are different types of soldiers, I think on the other thread there was some mention that the ones carrying out the rapes weren’t the ones from Russia but ones brought in to fight from elsewhere - whether that’s true or not I do not know

Interesting story coming out of Russia which gives me dancing eyebrows (I've checked and there does seem to be Russian language sources for it).

The former vice chair of Gazprombank Vladislav Avaev, his wife and daughter have been found dead in an apparent murder / suicide.

Gazprombank is the key bank for the gas for rubles scheme.

Interview with the Russian ambassador in the US

www.politico.com/news/2022/04/18/anatoly-antonov-russia-ambassador-00025744

Lonely Anatoly: The Russian ambassador is Washington’s least popular man

It’s a very narrow approach to say the ‘Russian invasion of Ukraine,’” Antonov said. “We are talking about changing the world order that was created by the United States, by NATO countries after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.”

I’ve really appreciated the calm, highly informative, grown up conversations and commentary these threads have offered even when posters have had differing points of view. I hope that that can continue, temporary glitches notwithstanding.

@prettybird

There is some automated moderation in that posts with certain words will get hidden until MNHQ has looked at it. Even if that word is within another word, the moderation is triggered. For example - and this happened a couple of years ago - a post with the word "snaggered" (only it had an "I" in it, rhymes with "tigger" and means "to laugh/titter") was hidden, because the word that is an offensive word for "black" in English was within it.

Not sure if they've fixed that - but I'm not going to risk it!

Scunthorpe ...

@RedToothBrush

www.dailysabah.com/business/economy/200000-risk-losing-jobs-in-moscow-over-sanctions-mayor-sobyanin
200,000 risk losing jobs in Moscow over sanctions: Mayor Sobyanin

This was also brought up on Radio 4 The World at One.

RedToothBrush, or anyone else who knows, in your opinion might this mean that ordinary Russians suffering under sanctions become even more pro-war against what they see as being US/Britain and NATO using Ukraine as proxy? Or does it not make any difference as they would be bent on pursuing this war for any excuse?

As mentioned earlier in the thread, World at One today is worth listening to on iPlayer if you missed it.

[quote Tillsforthrills]@MMBaranova like reading your posts too

It seems there are different types of soldiers, I think on the other thread there was some mention that the ones carrying out the rapes weren’t the ones from Russia but ones brought in to fight from elsewhere - whether that’s true or not I do not know[/quote]
The story seems to be that the ethnic Russians had a problem with the Chechen who raped the woman in Bucha. They saved her and told the man to leave. He later was found dead, and the suggestion was that he was shot by his own side.

There was another story from I think its was either Bucha or Irpen about a group of men who were taken away after a Russian who was looking after the prisoners was given an order for 4 corpses. He asked for volunteers (with tears in eyes) before he took 10 men away from where they were being held. Then he shot 4 but released the other six and told them to run and hide so his senior officers didn't know he had released them.

Yesterday there was the story that Vitalyi Kim put out about Russian soliders who got into a fire fight with another group of soliders who were from a different force and were a different ethnic group (I'm not sure it was Chechen in this case).

We don't know what this second story was about, but we do know that there are problems with soliders who have been press ganged in the DPR not wishing to fight their own. Its possible in the latter case this might be an explanation or it may indeed be a Russian force taking issue with the way they are being treated by this other group.

So there is a pattern of internal disputes / tension / unwillingness to carry out orders within the Russian army that seems to be being documented slowly but surely. If it is happening these incidents are unlikely to be the last.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]**@RedToothBrush

www.dailysabah.com/business/economy/200000-risk-losing-jobs-in-moscow-over-sanctions-mayor-sobyanin
200,000 risk losing jobs in Moscow over sanctions: Mayor Sobyanin

This was also brought up on Radio 4 The World at One.

RedToothBrush, or anyone else who knows, in your opinion might this mean that ordinary Russians suffering under sanctions become even more pro-war against what they see as being US/Britain and NATO using Ukraine as proxy? Or does it not make any difference as they would be bent on pursuing this war for any excuse?

As mentioned earlier in the thread, World at One today is worth listening to on iPlayer if you missed it.[/quote]
Well if you've got no money to pay your bills, you might be offered the 'choice' between no food/home or conscription.

Its going to get very tough for a lot of Russians.

One of the catches for Putin with this though, is that he has been trying to avoid sending Slavic Russians from Moscow and the other main cities to the war, because both harms his ethnic supremecy project and threatens to destabilise things politically. If he sends lots of men from the cities (where there have been protests) he risks more protests.

Basically the stakes start to go up for Putin.

(On that note - video footage of protests in Shanghai today. Unconnected to Russia, but worth keeping an eye on because you might see indirect consequences / fall out from stuff like this which does affect Russia/ Ukraine)

My memory of the TL;DR of the fall of the Berlin Wall is that it was pretty much by accident, thanks to piss poor communications, and a system paralysed by indecision.

@RedToothBrush

Yes that was it!

This shows that although it’s hard to sympathise with Russian soldiers I’m sure there’s some there that find it all unbearable to witness things like that and how frightened they are of disobeying.

Posted about this father as part of another article, but reflection on it, is an important point. (and goes back to a fracturing of Russian objectives / willingness to follow orders / different factions emerging). The father is pro-war and posted stuff on social media about getting rid of Ukrainians for context:

Christo Grozev @christogrozev
The father of one of the young conscripts who went missing on the Moskva missile cruiser lashes out at the Russian military who are even refusing to tell him what happened to his son.

The father says he was contacted by three other families of MIA conscripts from the ship. They all want written answers. This isn't going down, no pun intended.

Get a lot of hate reactions to the father of the dead conscript. Totally understandable, but remember: the only realistic way to stop this war is through an implosion of the bubble of social support for it, and the more angry parents like this, the sooner the implosion.

Anti-war activists and generally smart, empathetic Russians aren't going to change the calculus for Putin. They are a known quantity and a guaranteed minority. To change the calculus, you need pro-war Russians to feel the cost and start demanding the impossible - a cost-free war

The spectre of the soviet invasion of Afghanistan (or the US equivalent in Vietnam) looms large with this.

Modern tech

A Ukrainian man has been tracking the movement of Russian troops after a soldier pillaged the wireless headphones from his home.

www.thedailybeast.com/apple-find-my-helps-ukrainian-vitaliy-semenets-track-russian-troops-with-looted-airpods-near-kyiv