Ukraine Invasion: Part 21

[MagicFox]

Another thread, thank you to all

@WeAreTheHeroes

Bore I missed that as I'm doing some DIY. Look forward to seeing it on the news later.

Here's a clip

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVxaAiqDHKs

Theresa May also had a go at her
m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dn0eC3jlMU

A hospital with people in?
no idea Strawberries all news that comes out of Mariupol is somewhat unreliable.

@strawberriesarenot

Johnson just hopes a bit of the Zelensky shine will rub off on him, I suspect. I don't think he cares what's happening in Ukraine.

100%

‘He could never’ as my DC would say.

@Igotjelly

Got to say at times this thread can be like being on some sort of merry go round from hell. I really think the chances of the UK launching a preemptive nuclear strike are close to zero. Party gate is bad and all but even Boris doesn’t need a distraction that badly.

I keep seeing commentators talking about the fact Russia refuses to rule out the use of nuclear weapons. Can’t say I blame them, who voluntarily says they won’t use the one thing that gives them leverage.

Quite.

Saying we will launch a first strike is bonkers. Simply because we have no bunkers.

Those rich enough for bunkers won't survive long if they kill off the peasants.

I think this is probably the main issue today in terms of nuclear planning in the UK. No bunkers.

At some point it dawned on even the thickest politician that a post-nuclear world simply wasn't worth living in. Even JRM might baulk at a 20 to 30 century period of extreme radiation toxicity.

Also - as Russia is demonstrating - if you allow your leaders to be cosseted, they become incredibly cavalier with other peoples lives.

There's a powerful metaphor in having to sew yourself into your own funeral shroud as there won't be anyone else to do it for you.

I knew my taste in Bruegel was odd . And Bosch.

[quote PestorPeston]Shoigu is looking rather alive, for someone reported to have had a probably fatal heart attack a few days ago.

twitter.com/euronews/status/1516405052394684430[/quote]
You know when children throw a massive strop and tip the board over when they realise they are losing at monopoly?

Well that.

@MagicFox

I just can't stand it when talk veers towards normalising nuclear weapons or talking about them in a really gung ho way. I think we should be really careful about it

The politicians are the ones who need to be careful about what they say, I don't see anybody here who is guilty of being gung ho or suggesting normalising their use.....

However the risks associated with them won't go away by ignoring them either.

[quote PestorPeston]Shoigu is looking rather alive, for someone reported to have had a probably fatal heart attack a few days ago.

twitter.com/euronews/status/1516405052394684430[/quote]
He is risen!

It's an Easter miracle

The source about his heart attack wasn't really very reliable :P

They are saying 300 civilians in the hospital in Mariupol

There was quite an impressive bunker built in Westminster in the mid eighties. We certainly don't seem to have catered for any of the hoi polloi .

@strawberriesarenot

Johnson just hopes a bit of the Zelensky shine will rub off on him, I suspect. I don't think he cares what's happening in Ukraine.

He certainly doesn’t care what happens to Ukrainians, or he wouldn’t have allowed the appalling mess of the Homes For Ukraine scheme to drag on so long (day 31 of waiting for visas here).

I just can't stand it when talk veers towards normalising nuclear weapons or talking about them in a really gung ho way. I think we should be really careful about it

Yes, nuclear war is the end of history for us humans and why, baring accident, they wont be used, as i said, talking about them is pointless.

Russia seems to already believe it is at war with NATO, certainly thats their propaganda message, so given that, i don't understand why we are quite so cautious in supply certain weapons over other, equally lethal ones... unless we don't have enough?

If so, thats very remiss, this is a comparatively speaking a very small war.

The proven liar BJ has tried to use the "..,but Corbyn..," argument over Ukraine in the HoC to deflect from his lying.

Yes, nuclear war is the end of history for us humans

Not necessarily. Depends how far it goes.

Not that it's to be recommended.

Why the steel works is hard to take. It is a bunker,

PM pledges additional artillery support. Any idea what that actually looks like?

I would expect all councils to do disaster planning for all possible disasters including nuclear attack and accident, would be rather shortsighted not to.
Though dunno what my local council's plan is, as recently they informed us there's no public bunkers, only the ones in apartment buildings and workplaces so people living in detached houses and terraced houses have nowhere to go.

@Alexandra2001

Russia seems to already believe it is at war with NATO, certainly thats their propaganda message, so given that, i don't understand why we are quite so cautious in supply certain weapons over other, equally lethal ones... unless we don't have enough?

As I see it problems are:

Training (yes we've been here before, yes I can hear the groans):

Up until pretty much now there's been no point in shipping complex kit - to halt the invasion PDQ the Ukranian forces have needed stuff they can just pick up and use with minimal training - hence NLAW/Stinger/Javelin/laterly Starstreak.

Now this has become a more protracted conflict you are starting to see more complex equipment arriving..

www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/2998981/howitzers-helicopters-humvees-headed-to-ukraine/

@Natsku

I would expect all councils to do disaster planning for all possible disasters including nuclear attack and accident, would be rather shortsighted not to. Though dunno what my local council's plan is, as recently they informed us there's no public bunkers, only the ones in apartment buildings and workplaces so people living in detached houses and terraced houses have nowhere to go.

Suddenly wondering whether bunkers will be the next new must-have in an estate agent's wish list.

I would expect all councils to do disaster planning for all possible disasters including nuclear attack and accident, would be rather shortsighted not to.

Like the epidemic/pandemic plans? Given the debacle over availability of masks/gloves/gowns etc., I have doubts about the readiness of CBRN kit

Suddenly wondering whether bunkers will be the next new must-have in an estate agent's wish list.

Bijou bunkerette, first owner, no mod cons?

The pandemic did show that readiness plans are not quite, well, ready enough, that's for sure. Hopefully though the people in charge of this stuff have learnt from that, like in Finland it was thought we were well prepared with our NESA stores and then it was discovered loads of it was out of date. I would not expect them to make that mistake again.

I'm going to rename my basement store room "the bunker" if we ever sell our house

I had the strong impression that things like a chemical factory explosion would be handled slower than they should be but basically by evacuation. The disaster planner really was a bit unfriendly so I never managed to get actual details out of him but I honestly think most people would be on their own in a giant disaster. Only the high status people would be saved.

Could you really evacuate many people quickly enough in the case of a chemical factory explosion?
We had some kind of factory incident in my town a few years ago, causing a toxic gas cloud to spread over town and the power all went out. They just told us on the radio to stay indoors and shut all the air vents but if you weren't listening to the radio you wouldn't have known. Nowadays I expect they'd send out phone alerts too, better chance of people knowing.