Ukraine Invasion: Part 21

[MagicFox]

Another thread, thank you to all

I amazed twitter havent pulled that

WeAreTheHeroes thank fuck for that.

The UK does not have a no first use policy on nuclear weapons.

We are deliberately ambiguous about precisely when, how, and at what scale we would use our weapons. This ensures the deterrent’s effectiveness is not undermined and complicates the calculations of a potential aggressor.

The UK’s nuclear deterrent is operationally independent. Only the Prime Minister can authorise the use of our nuclear weapons even if deployed as part of a NATO response. We would consider using our nuclear weapons only in extreme circumstances of self-defence, including the defence of our NATO allies.

If you want to know where ranty russian man got his idea about us maybe going for a first strike rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/going-ballistic-uks-proposed-nuclear-build this may help inform.

We used to simulate the firing of Tactical Nuclear battlefield weapons on major NATO exercises during the cold War.
Basically it meant End Game, and everyone could pack up and go home.
Nothing was planned or exercised after firing them, the Lance and Honest John missiles.
Probably because the response of escalating to the use of such weapons was considered too drastic to be of value to simulate further.

Russians drop 3 ton bomb on Mariupol hospital
twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/status/1516417574870921216
could be heard 100km away

@KonTikki

We used to simulate the firing of Tactical Nuclear battlefield weapons on major NATO exercises during the cold War. Basically it meant End Game, and everyone could pack up and go home. Nothing was planned or exercised after firing them, the Lance and Honest John missiles. Probably because the response of escalating to the use of such weapons was considered too drastic to be of value to simulate further.

God, it's all so depressing isn't jt

@WeAreTheHeroes I’m watching priti Patel talk in the commons now about “removing” people to Rwanda 🤮

There is no disaster planning for councils to work with in the event of nuclear war and you certainly wouldn't tell a council your nuclear launch plans

Odd you say that, the man in the next office along from mine in the Council was the Disaster Planner and he definitely had one.

My contributions to these threads seem to almost exclusively consist of links to BBC radio programmes, so here I am with another one (I think the quality of analysis is usually better than TV)

BBc Radio 4 Today is holding a special discussion tonight at 8 pm

Ukraine: Where’s the Line?
Today
Mishal Husain and a panel of expert guests ask what it would take to provoke Nato to confront Russia directly in Ukraine

Will be available on iplayer shortly after broadcast.

There's also some interesting analysis right now on Radio 5 Live about the training of Ukraine troops by UK/NATO

[quote YorkshireLondonMiss]@WeAreTheHeroes I’m watching priti Patel talk in the commons now about “removing” people to Rwanda 🤮[/quote]
Yvette Cooper really took her apart in her response, I thought.

@KonTikki

We used to simulate the firing of Tactical Nuclear battlefield weapons on major NATO exercises during the cold War. Basically it meant End Game, and everyone could pack up and go home. Nothing was planned or exercised after firing them, the Lance and Honest John missiles. Probably because the response of escalating to the use of such weapons was considered too drastic to be of value to simulate further.

At that point in proceedings our lot (UK side, '80s) used to then play the "ah, the inbound missed by just enough for you to carry on operating" card and then you then had the joys of an NBC phase...

That certainly was depressing....

@Ijsbear

There is no disaster planning for councils to work with in the event of nuclear war and you certainly wouldn't tell a council your nuclear launch plans

Odd you say that, the man in the next office along from mine in the Council was the Disaster Planner and he definitely had one.

A plan about what to do in the event someone launched nukes at us, or a plan about what to do in the event we were launching nukes at someone else?

I really don't see (say) Reading Council being expected to sort out how the population should behave in the event of us starting a nuclear war. That would not be what Reading Council had to deal with; they would need a plan for Reading, not for Zlatoust (it's about the same size).

Bore I missed that as I'm doing some DIY. Look forward to seeing it on the news later.

Shoigu is looking rather alive, for someone reported to have had a probably fatal heart attack a few days ago.

twitter.com/euronews/status/1516405052394684430

Can’t remember where I read a prominent military figure (I think) had said UK could strike Russia without needing the OK from NATO due to genocide. Just tried looking for it online again and can’t find.

@PestorPeston

Russians drop 3 ton bomb on Mariupol hospital twitter.com/CanadianUkrain1/status/1516417574870921216 could be heard 100km away

A hospital with people in?

@Tillsforthrills

Can’t remember where I read a prominent military figure (I think) had said UK could strike Russia without needing the OK from NATO due to genocide. Just tried looking for it online again and can’t find.

What about the threat that poses to the population of the UK?

I just can't stand it when talk veers towards normalising nuclear weapons or talking about them in a really gung ho way. I think we should be really careful about it

@MagicFox

Indeed it would be at great risk to the population but i wonder if those comments made, are the one being discussed in the Russian video about the UK striking first.

A plan about what to do in the event someone launched nukes at us, or a plan about what to do in the event we were launching nukes at someone else?

His job was basically to plan out what to do if there were a variety of scenarios, including a chemical-factory explosion (there was one nearby, wouldn't be allowed now from a planning pov) and yes, nuclear.

He didn't tell me much, he was a lot of a loner and tbh Im not sure how good he was at his job, but I did find out that much. I'd have been interested to know more, the subject's a fascinating one intellectually. I sincerely hope it remains only theoretical planning!

I've also been down one of the bunkers before it was decommissioned. Claustrophic, to put it mildly.

I found it rather arrogant to state categorically that council's don't have a plan though. At least one does (or did, it's a while ago now).

Got to say at times this thread can be like being on some sort of merry go round from hell. I really think the chances of the UK launching a preemptive nuclear strike are close to zero. Party gate is bad and all but even Boris doesn’t need a distraction that badly.

I keep seeing commentators talking about the fact Russia refuses to rule out the use of nuclear weapons. Can’t say I blame them, who voluntarily says they won’t use the one thing that gives them leverage.

@Tillsforthrills

Can’t remember where I read a prominent military figure (I think) had said UK could strike Russia without needing the OK from NATO due to genocide. Just tried looking for it online again and can’t find.

The UK doesn't need an OK from anybody but doing so carries massive risks (as MagicFox points out)...it's not going to happen.

I'm not sure what point this prominent military figure is trying to make other than big up the UK or make him/herself sound a bit "hard"

@MagicFox

I just can't stand it when talk veers towards normalising nuclear weapons or talking about them in a really gung ho way. I think we should be really careful about it

But they are normal. Leastways to me. I grew up in the shadow of the mushroom cloud and ate Ready Brek. Or Windscale flakes as NTNOCN called them.

Our O level physics teacher used to let us use the school geiger counter and radiation sources too.

@Ijsbear

There is no disaster planning for councils to work with in the event of nuclear war and you certainly wouldn't tell a council your nuclear launch plans

Odd you say that, the man in the next office along from mine in the Council was the Disaster Planner and he definitely had one.

Well we have a zombie apocalypse plan in our house and are working on a nuclear one. DH accidentally found a local disused and lost shelter over the course of the weekend. Its hidden in a place thats not readily accessible today because its on the wrong side of a stream. (He had a legitimate reason to be where he was).

Only problem is its about 6 mins walk from the house. So we might be toast if Manchester gets hit anyway.

I think this is probably the main issue today in terms of nuclear planning in the UK. No bunkers.

[quote PestorPeston]Shoigu is looking rather alive, for someone reported to have had a probably fatal heart attack a few days ago.

twitter.com/euronews/status/1516405052394684430[/quote]
That link is astonishing. Poor misunderstood Russia, having to fight longer than they anticipated.

I suppose it comes because they're acting as if they believe that Russia genuinely has a right to take over another independent, self-willed country.