Hepatitis outbreak in children

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I'm currently really quite unwell with Covid and not sleeping very well so please be gentle, but is anyone else really worried about the reports of this hepatitis outbreak in children now being monitored by the WHO? It seems to have gained traction over the last few days and lots of reports coming out about it now. I know very little about hepatitis but I know its quite rare to see such severe cases in children. Could Covid be the cause? I'm just feeling really quite worried about it and so sad for these poor children and their families, how horrendous after we've all just come through a pandemic .

I think we are looking at pre-school here (with peak age affected to be suggested age 3).

So yes daycare centres were open in Sweden for babies and toddlers. We know Sweden didn’t have a lockdown but did they just carry on as normal? They were definitely encouraged to work from home. So the question would be - was attendance normal in nurseries, were toddler groups open - were babies mixing amongst friends and family?
What would really be helpful is if we had info on the 9 cases - did they attend childcare settings and mix freely or did the parents keep them at home? This information would be useful for all countries.

I don’t doubt this is very complex and many factors come in to play. Hence no answers yet.

My question is why is it mainly affecting pre school age children? What has happened differently to that specific age group? Otherwise we’d be seeing a more even spread across age groups?

Two studies published today (and all over the news) have concluded the Covid was not the cause of these cases.

The two teams of researchers from London and Glasgow have concluded that infants, because of Covid lockdowns were exposed later than normal to two specific viruses - adenovirus and adenoids associated virus 2. This normally causes no illness was and requires a co-helper virus.

One of the experts Prof Judith Breuer, an expert in virology at University College London. Said
‘During the lockdown period when children were not mixing, they were not transmitting viruses to each other. They were not building up immunity to the common infections they would normally encounter. When the restrictions were lifted, children began to mix freely and they were suddenly exposed with this lack of prior immunity to a battery of new infections’

Not wishing to argue again just updating with these two new studies and latest thoughts from the experts. It seems co-infections have caused this but not Covid.

More proof that lockdowns were more harmful than good!

Yes exactly. And children are the ones that have suffered the worst.

And funny how when people were convinced it was Covid related there was so much worry but now we know it’s down to lockdown there’s silence.

We’ve thrown our children under a bus in so many ways throughout this pandemic. Where’s all the worry about these poor children now? We have caused a situation with lockdown that has resulted in children having hepatitis and liver transplants FFS. Yet tumbleweed silence.

Another one for the history books when they look back on how we dealt with the pandemic. And how children suffered for the elderly.

It's always worthwhile to follow the science, the medical advice and read ALL the research rather than rely on posters with a Farage/UsForThem agenda.
None of the studies support anti-lockdown rhetoric.

Have you read the latest news @AlexandriasWindmill both the latest and most conclusive studies have found the cause of this. 2 co-existing viruses. Which would not normally affect children so badly but the EXPERTS- you know Professors of Virology have stated that the reduced exposure to these viruses in the formative years is to blame (because we were in lockdown). And moreso, everyone mixing again so suddenly after lockdown caused ‘a battery of infections’

But no, nothing to do with lockdown because someone on Mumsnet knows better than the experts who have done the studies…

Sorry but there’s no Us for Them or Farage here just experts and evidence. Have you read the links and the news or are you just making assumptions?

Possibly @AlexandriasWindmill has in mind that at least some of the popular media reports talked of the 'belief' of the researchers, 'suggestions' and unanswered questions in their coverage so it hardly seems settled. Haven't looked at how it's been reported in the anti-lockdown press but inappropriate reporting doesn't change the substance of the current state of the research to which @AlexandriasWindmill was alluding.

Certainly not 'proof that lockdowns were more harmful than the alternative', just one of the costs of lockdown to be looked at in the round with other costs, other benefits of lockdown and compared with the costs and benefits of the counterfactual of no lockdown.

If it was down to Covid there are things we need to do differently right now, as COVID is circulating.
As it was probably down to lock down we can continue analysing data, no need to do anything as we aren't currently locking down our children.

Regardless, our amazing scientists have learned something new as a result of that unprecedented situation.

Well they have concluded it wasn’t down to Covid.

We can learn to never lockdown for a virus that is largely harmless to children. And maybe take a bit of responsibility to the harm that has been caused by lockdowns. By shutting children away we have caused serious harm to their health. Let’s not brush that under the carpet.

’Haven’t looked at how it’s been reported’ maybe have a look then come back and comment. It’s quite conclusive. Covid has been ruled out.

Yes it’s too late as the harms of lockdown have been done. Does that mean we don’t comment or learn from it?

The one thing that both papers say is that they can’t rule out covid being a cause.

I’m not sure where the BBC got that line from but it isn’t the conclusion of either paper. A similar paper from Israel a few weeks hypothesised it probably was.

The truth is that none of these papers can prove lockdown or covid as the cause or conclusively rule them out because of their methodology. We need further studies to do that.

They have identified two viruses that have caused this neither of which is Covid. But please link to any recent research that still thinks this is anything to do with Covid. This is new breakthrough research from 2 studies. Not sure why it is being dismissed and people on here think they know more than Virologists.

I think I’ll listen to the experts opinion on this.

Just linking again. But if you think you know more than an expert in Virology.. what is your job again?

There is no evidence that hepatitis the result of lockdowns. That virologist is just making a theory - it has not been tested or verified. There are other prominent scientists contesting this so there is no firm conclusion.

It is more scientifically accurate to say that there are some emergents of diseases such as hepatitis and monkey pox, at higher rates and more widespread and that it is strange, and we really don’t know exactly why it is happening.

I thought this was interesting:

But the viruses aren’t the end of the story. In genetic tests, the team noticed that the children with unexplained hepatitis were much more likely to have a gene called DRB1*0401—89% of the affected children had this gene, which is generally found in 16% of the Scottish population. The gene is known to affect the way the immune system works. Essentially, the proteins it codes for help immune cells decide what to destroy.

Also this article makes the point that neither study has been peer-reviewed as yet.

www.technologyreview.com/2022/07/25/1056455/explaining-hepatitis-children/

Yes the gene link was also interesting. But that is in random to then two viruses being present in most children.

I was updating the thread with two new research studies with new findings - very relevant to the thread as this hasn’t been found before. They have found that in the hepatitis cases two viruses were present. A co-existing helper virus that is key to understanding why this unusual situation has occurred.

Of course the studies haven’t been peer reviewed they’ve just been published. These are teams of experts working to find the cause of this. And they have discovered in most of the cases of hepatitis the children had both an adenovirus and adenovirus 2. A helper virus that doesn’t normally cause illness. This is a real breakthrough in understanding what has caused this.

This isn’t one expert’s opinion. This is two studies from leading institutions with teams of experts who have both discovered the same thing. This is science at its best. Nothing we can do about lockdowns. We can’t go back in time. But at least we are getting more studies and research on why this is happening.

Tandom not random

@CherryBlossomAutumn

The virologist whose job it is to be an expert in this area and has studied for years and years and has just done ground breaking work in this area (therefore privy to far more info than you or I have) may be in a position to offer a valid opinion. One that I would listen to over yours.

There are two separate teams of scientists that have been working on this and that have found this result. Not just one virologist. Well done to them.

This link clearly states two independent studies find no link to covid19. But do find a link to lockdown affecting young children's ability to build an immune system which has left them open to a virus which in the past caused no notable problem.

www.labroots.com/trending/microbiology/23265/child-hepatitis-linked-viral-co-infection

Also interesting to see a mother's intuition at work...
news.stv.tv/west-central/mum-fears-covid-lockdown-partly-to-blame-for-daughters-severe-hepatitis-illness

Yes both studies say : crucially both teams found no evidence of a link to SARS Covid-19

They are saying we lost the usual equilibrium for viruses due to lockdown. Lots of seasonal viruses are circulating when we wouldn’t expect them to. This is causing problems.

That's interesting. I have a family member who's a nurse in A&E she said after the first lockdown many babies came in with winter viruses ie croup in summer. Anecdotal but follows what the studies are finding.

Yes @Olivestone there was a big surge in RSV in young children/babies too after lockdown and not at the usual time of year.

Flu in Australia- although still seasonal is the worst strain for a long time. So that will be the flu we’re getting over here. As it’s been suppressed for a few years - as a population we’ve lost a bit of flu immunity. This is far more worrying than Covid currently.