Hepatitis outbreak in children

[MumbleCrumbs]

I'm currently really quite unwell with Covid and not sleeping very well so please be gentle, but is anyone else really worried about the reports of this hepatitis outbreak in children now being monitored by the WHO? It seems to have gained traction over the last few days and lots of reports coming out about it now. I know very little about hepatitis but I know its quite rare to see such severe cases in children. Could Covid be the cause? I'm just feeling really quite worried about it and so sad for these poor children and their families, how horrendous after we've all just come through a pandemic .

@Owwlie Not scaremongering, just discussing possibilities.

But I completely agree with you that the lockdowns have affected children's immune system development. And that this is most likely part of the problem.

I get what you are saying regarding the breastfeeding but there are very few serious cases overall and fewer still in the 4-5 year olds so 12 months to 3 years are affected more. But hopefully they find out what is causing it soon.

Moderna trial estimated completion date is 27/10/2022
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427?term=NCT04470427&draw=2&rank=1

Pfizer estimate is February 2024.
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=NCT04368728&draw=2&rank=1

It's normal for safety monitoring to continue after a vaccine has been approved for use. And in this case it was emergency use.

And I'm fairly sure I read that Pfizer planned to continue monitoring after this date since the COVID-19 vaccination process was sped up. But can't remember where I read that so can't provide a link.

But in context with what I was saying of course we can't possibly know all the side affects yet they have only been in use for over a year!

But in context with what I was saying of course we can't possibly know all the side affects yet they have only been in use for over a year!

Vaccine side-effects tend to be in the immediate range - ie, within minutes, hours, and days, up to around 28 or so days. It is very rare for there to be any later effects.

Are the approved Covid-19 vaccines still under clinical trial?
Yes – as it is normal and required for monitoring of a vaccine to continue after it has been approved. This is known as ‘phase 4’ of clinical research, or post-marketing surveillance, and the aim is to continue to improve our understanding of the long-term uses, benefits, and risks of the vaccine.
Ongoing monitoring of the vaccines doesn’t mean they aren’t safe. Before they were approved for use, each of the vaccines being given in the UK passed rigorous phase 3 clinical trials. In these trials, they were tested on tens of thousands of people and proven to be safe and effective.
In addition to the standard ongoing (phase 4) trials, people who took part in the phase 3 trials of approved vaccines are continuing to be followed up (up to 2 years after their second dose) to collect more data – for example on safety, asymptomatic infection, and how long protection from the vaccines lasts.

www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/coronavirus-vaccine-trials

@milkyaqua I was referring to making the connection. In that it might take years before a side effect is attributed to a vaccine, especially if it's rare. And that could be the case for both long and short term side effects.

For example it took an amount of time before they realised some of the Covid vaccines were causing heart inflammation.

I think when a vaccine has been administered to as many people as the Covid-19 vaccines have, you get a fair view of any potential or actual problems fairly swiftly, with such a large database worldwide.

64.5% of the world population has received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. 11.65 billion doses have been administered globally, and 6.45 million are now administered each day.

ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Jesus Christ it didn't take long for the anti-covid-vax signal to go out.

www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/hepatitis-cases-are-increasing-among-children-uk-could-covid-have-role-play

"Importantly, none of the children diagnosed with hepatitis in the UK have received a COVID vaccination, so there’s no basis to believe COVID vaccines have anything to do with this spike."

What the hell is up with the fucking formatting on this??

And I don't even have italics selected 🙄🙄🙄

And I really doubt there’s that many 3-5 year olds still being breastfed, plus that would have been noted by doctors due to being uncommon and flagged up.

but does it need to be symptoms starting immediately after being breastfed? Could they have been breastfed around the time of mum’s vaccination and it’s taken 18 months to show up? Apparently there’s a adinovirus in the vaccine?

I doubt many breastfeeding mothers had a covid vaccine 18 months ago

I don’t see why not, @User7493268965 ?

Very few people had vaccines in December 2020, mainly elderly or HC and all had Pfizer, is adenovirus in Pfizer. No one received AZ until January

milkyaqua 'It is estimated that only 10% of serious reactions and between 2 and 4% of non-serious reactions are reported. Under-reporting coupled with a decline in reporting makes it especially important to report all suspicions of adverse drug reactions to the Yellow Card Scheme.'

Source: MHRA www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/yellow-card-please-help-to-reverse-the-decline-in-reporting-of-suspected-adverse-drug-reactions

I wonder how many people don't report because they are afraid they might be called a Covid anti vaxxer by those around them.

It's also worth looking at the yellow card data:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting#yellow-card-reports

There are a lot of adverse reactions and as the MHRA say this could be only 10% of people reporting any issues. So although a lot of the population have been vaccinated there could be a lot that have not reported any issues.

@User7493268965 FWIW, you're right. We initially solely used mRNA vaccines and to people not of reproductive age. Women of reproductive age received the vaccine in our PCN several months down the line. I think we tended to use Pfizer for ambulatory adults whom I suspect will tend to include most of the women who might have later become pregnant and AstraZeneca for home visits for the housebound as AstraZeneca was initially thought to be more kinetically stable though I wonder if this might not help should anyone be looking for evidence to support a belief. Would need to double check dates and details.

Having read a bit more about drug related hepatitis I don't think it matters what's in the drug.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/hepatitis/druginduced-hepatitis

And all those artificial chemicals that constitute food. And alcohol and recreational drugs. And the effects of untreated diseases and infections that would otherwise cause much worse outcomes than when medicines are administered?

Yes but it doesn't alter the fact that drugs can be a rare cause of hepatitis!

Yes but it doesn't alter the fact that drugs can be a rare cause of hepatitis!

@Olivestone

I suppose it's probably even more rare for drug-induced hepatitis to be induced by NOT HAVING THE VACCINE?!?! 🙄

Yes some drugs appear to be a risk factor for hepatitis. Some untreated medical conditions seem to present an enormously higher risk of hepatitis and also of unrelated mortality.

'I don't think it matters what's in the drug' appears completely incorrect.

As does 'Yes but it doesn't alter the fact that drugs can be a rare cause of hepatitis!'

Yes but it doesn't alter the fact that A FEW drugs can be a rare cause of hepatitis! might be more accurate. Need to check but if there are tens of thousands? of medicines, a tiny fraction of which might have hepatitis as a rare side effect?

@kittensinthekitchen we don't know if those unvaccinated children were or were not breastfeeding when the mother was vaccinated. Obviously many things are passed via breast milk that was the thinking!

Why is everything in italics now?

Some of the children affected were 16. I very much doubt they were breastfeeding recently.

Yes and according to this study :
www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(21)02093-6/fulltext

'Seven cases of suspected immune-mediated hepatitis have been reported with SARS-2-COV mRNA vaccines (3 with Pfizer and 4 with Moderna)'

No idea!

Vaccination is available to 5 years and above. But again we don't know if the children affected have or have not been vaccinated. And I guess this might be a medical breach to disclose? Not sure!?

www.statnews.com/2022/05/16/puzzling-pediatric-hepatitis-cases-echo-acute-flaccid-myelitis/

Another good article, which states:

"The only culprit that can be conclusively ruled out is COVID vaccines, because kids under 5, who make up the bulk of the hepatitis cases, cannot yet be vaccinated. In the weeks ahead, experts will be looking at three key pieces of data to parse the remaining hypotheses.

The first and perhaps most obvious set of data to gather is: Have these kids had COVID before?"

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/05/hepatitis-kids-adenovirus-covid/629849/