"Give us a smile love" - why is this so wrong?

[bonfireheart]

DD is 14 - I see men glance at her but nothing usually to worry about. Today we were in the city centre and she was walking behind me with a very heavy bag after a long tiring day minding her own business and an older man said "give us a smile love". She seemed to find it funny and that it was "a nice thing to say, he wants me to be happy" and I really couldn't articulate to her why what he said was so wrong...now I'm doubting myself, am I being too precious?!

I'm the kind of person who doesn't get easily irritated, however this pisses on my chips! It completely ruins my day and does not make me want to smile! YANBU op

He was being condescending to her. He had no idea who she was, what she was experiencing but felt he had the right to point out that her facial expression wasn't one he found acceptable from a female.

It is condescending, misogynistic twattery. I'd be explaining that to DD.

Women are not decorative adornments for the pleasure of men.

Very presumptuous of him to interrupt her private thoughts and require her to smile for his edification. The implication being whatever she was thinking of was thinking of was less important than his own whims.

It is also creepy because he was staring at her and noticing her expression. It's creepy because only young women are told to smile, never middle aged men or older women. Which tells you he's not being lovely man. He's a sad old perv.

I think it's intrusive, arrogant and inappropriate to address a perfect stranger (either male or female) with a demand for them to 'perform' to your instructions.

Saying, 'Cheer up!' or 'Give us a smile!' to anyone is thoughtless. Perhaps they've just had the news that their granny has died. Perhaps they are worried that they are being made redundant, or they can't pay the rent, or their DC is taking drugs, or their partner is cheating on them.

This. And they would never, ever say it to a man. Ever.

@thenightsky

I always wish I had a gun and I could shoot at their feet and shout... 'dance, dance for me you fucker'.

Oh God YES!!!!!! Me too!

I wasn’t “hanging around a nasty man” the last time it was said to me I was locking my bike up outside the local shopping centre.

[quote EssexLioness]@llm24 I find your attitude strange. If you have genuinely brought your son up well, you won’t need to worry about this because he will already be aware how inappropriate it is to ‘compliment’ random women on the street. if you feel this is a risk then you need to put more work into raising your son to see women as equals. It really isn’t the minefield you are making it out to be.

This all reminds me of this video I saw a while ago

[/quote] Loved that video thanks for posting!

[quote llm24]@EssexLioness

How dare you suggest I have not brought my son up well and I certainly don’t need advice from you

I have absolutely no worries he will continue to be a well mannered , polite young man
So do not worry about that

Maybe you need to
meant to respect other
people opinions on matters[/quote]
Complete strangers making unsolicited comments about you when they know nothing about what’s going on in your life is infuriating isn’t it llm24

Funny how I have 2 teenage sons and have no such worries (real or made up for the purposes of disagreeing with everyone else on this thread...hmm..) like @llm24 has. I've raised mine the right way. They have a sister. They have me, their mother. They have also had to endure the catcalls, 'helpful' smile reminders, ratings and confirmations that I would 'get it' whilst out and about with me. They know it is wrong. That's why I'm not fretting about my sons going out in the world and being 'taken the wrong way'. If I ever got wind of either of them telling someone to smile or cheer up for their own cheap thrills, I would go fucking mad. Not wring my hands at horrible women not lapping it up!

They know it is wrong. That's why I'm not fretting about my sons going out in the world and being 'taken the wrong way'. If I ever got wind of either of them telling someone to smile or cheer up for their own cheap thrills, I would go fucking mad. Not wring my hands at horrible women not lapping it up!

Yeah, oddly, I have no concerns at all about horrible women taking my son the wrong way either

My boyfriend is 58. I can't imagine he's ever been taken the wrong way.

My brother is 44 and he's never been taken the wrong way either.

A friend of mine has the unfortunate experience of bring taken the wrong way all the time.

Luck of the draw I guess...

Always read the conversations on mumsnet agreed with some and disagreed with others, this my first post on any thread and now I know why it will be my last and go back to reading these conversations from a distance

Whether you agree or disagree with an OP situation
You respected other peoples comments

But some of the posters are like a pack of wolves , if people don’t agree with it the backlash is horrendous
Surely you realise not everyone shares the same opinion and whether you think it’s right wrong you have to respect others

There are some nasty people on here - please think before you write

Happy Easter

PS only commenting on this post as it was one of the first I read this morning

If they were genuinely trying to be nice it would be saying morning/lovely day/you ok type conversation
But no, it's always smile because god forbid we don't look pretty and happy enough for them

I can't stand it. It's as if women are there for men, eye candy to look happy. To say that to a 14 year old, yuck! How dare we have our own feelings and not be happy all the time!

If someone smiles at me I usually smile in return. “Give us a smile love” comes across as entitlement. I wouldn’t like it regardless if it was said by a man or a woman.

@thenightsky:
I always wish I had a gun and I could shoot at their feet and shout... 'dance, dance for me you fucker'.

THAT’S the BEST response!!

I’ve been telling men to fuck off since I was a teenager when they’ve said this to me. I do not exist to please them.

If you answer with "why?" some look stumped. Because it highlights how utterly ridiculous a request it is of a stranger.

However many respond to the "why" with the predictable 'stuck up / bitch / can't say anything nowadays / it was a compliment' etc.

I responded to the latter once with "how is asking me to smile a compliment" and was told to go fuck myself as I was a miserable bitch.

It's insane. It's simply male entitlement and the belief they can and will comment on our bodies as they see fit and that our response is wrong unless that response is to do as we are told.

Women, know your place.

So depressing.

@Comedycook

I bet he wouldn't have said it to a 6'4'' 18 stone bloke....

A 14 year old girl though..

Fucking hate men who say this shit.

^ This We don’t owe men smiles or contact. We aren’t decorations.

[quote llm24]@GreyCarpet

I’m genuinely worried for my well
mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that
I have no doubt that he would ever treat any girl with a lack of respect[/quote]
I'm the same, it's a crazy world for our kids to be growing up in. This situation is t a compliment but I do understand what you mean.

"I’m genuinely worried for my well
mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that
I have no doubt that he would ever treat any girl with a lack of respect"

"Give us a smile, love" isn't a compliment - it's a command. That's where the lack of respect lies.

@llm24

I’m genuinely worried for my well mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that

@HeArInGhandsgirl11

I'm the same, it's a crazy world for our kids to be growing up in. This situation is t a compliment but I do understand what you mean.

If you have polite, well mannered sons then they will be perfectly capable of navigating their lives knowing the difference between a compliment and a command. They will also know when it's appropriate to give a compliment and what kind is appropriate.

Meeting a woman for a date - "you look lovely". Appropriate and nice.

Seeing a woman he doesn't know in the street - "you look lovely". Risks making the woman feel uncomfortable, not worth saying it in case that's the case. Some women wouldn't mind and that's fine but the fact it would make other women uncomfortable, and he doesn't know whether it would or not, means it's probably best to keep it to himself.

And if they do say something they think is a compliment and the response is negative or the women says she's really uncomfortable, a nice and polite boy / man would reflect on why that might be and learn from it rather than feeling hard done by or annoyed.

The onus shouldn't be on women to make sure boys and men don't get their feelings hurt just because they're 'one of the good ones' at the expense of their own feelings.

It’s sexist bullshit. Men do not get instructed by men to smile, only women (and young ones at that). There was a thread on this recently and someone came up with the best retort which is to act like you misheard, pat your pockets and say “sorry I don’t have any change”. Made me laugh.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@llm24

I’m genuinely worried for my well mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that

@HeArInGhandsgirl11

I'm the same, it's a crazy world for our kids to be growing up in. This situation is t a compliment but I do understand what you mean.

If you have polite, well mannered sons then they will be perfectly capable of navigating their lives knowing the difference between a compliment and a command. They will also know when it's appropriate to give a compliment and what kind is appropriate.

Meeting a woman for a date - "you look lovely". Appropriate and nice.

Seeing a woman he doesn't know in the street - "you look lovely". Risks making the woman feel uncomfortable, not worth saying it in case that's the case. Some women wouldn't mind and that's fine but the fact it would make other women uncomfortable, and he doesn't know whether it would or not, means it's probably best to keep it to himself.

And if they do say something they think is a compliment and the response is negative or the women says she's really uncomfortable, a nice and polite boy / man would reflect on why that might be and learn from it rather than feeling hard done by or annoyed.

The onus shouldn't be on women to make sure boys and men don't get their feelings hurt just because they're 'one of the good ones' at the expense of their own feelings. [/quote]

And if they do say something they think is a compliment and the response is negative or the women says she's really uncomfortable, a nice and polite boy / man would reflect on why that might be and learn from it rather than feeling hard done by or annoyed.

Completely agree

I used to work at a swimming pool as a lifeguard when I was a teenager. I did (and still do) suffer from a resting bitch face, plus the fact it was the worlds most boring job, so I probably didn’t always look thrilled to be there. I would stand at the top of the slide and just heard this comment on repeat all day long from hairy, overweight, middle-aged men. I used to have to do a polite laugh every single time but it was so draining. Some people just can’t control how their face looks, even if they feel like they’re happy on the inside 🤷🏼‍♀️ It has made me quite self-conscious of this now I’m older

Almost makes me miss the face masks. I didn't hear this comment once in nearly two years.

For the first time I could see why some Muslim women find the wearing of veils 'liberating', but the low bar is truly sickening and makes me angry for them and me. Women shouldn't have to mask our faces to be afforded the basic courtesy of going about our business unaccosted. I never respond to this 'instruction' and walk past them as if they don't exist.

Fuckers.