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Original poster

"Give us a smile love" - why is this so wrong?

127 replies

bonfireheart · 15/04/2022 20:17

DD is 14 - I see men glance at her but nothing usually to worry about. Today we were in the city centre and she was walking behind me with a very heavy bag after a long tiring day minding her own business and an older man said "give us a smile love". She seemed to find it funny and that it was "a nice thing to say, he wants me to be happy" and I really couldn't articulate to her why what he said was so wrong...now I'm doubting myself, am I being too precious?!

OP posts:
Lesperance · 16/04/2022 20:03

I don't get the angst, to be honest. Nice men don't do this, nasty ones do.
If you are hanging around or bringing up the nasty ones, you have a problem. If the men in your life are delightful, then why the angst? This is not a "not all men..." scenario. This is just about men who are too stupid not to keep their mouth shut.

Comedycook · 16/04/2022 20:13

I know for a fact my sons would NEVER tell girls they don't know to smile. They're well aware it's rude and inappropriate and creepy. If you've brought your boy up properly he will know that too

Exactly. My ds was only 9 years old when he said to me "mum, why do men in vans stare at women?". I explained they look because they want to see if the woman is pretty, which is very rude as women are going out for all sorts of reasons and not to provide these men with something attractive to gaze at. He once shouted at a passing lorry "stop staring at my mum".

GreyCarpet · 16/04/2022 20:23

[quote llm24]@GreyCarpet

I’m genuinely worried for my well
mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that
I have no doubt that he would ever treat any girl with a lack of respect[/quote]
Well it depends, doesn't it?

It depends in what the compliment is and why it's being given.

Personally, I don't appreciate compliments on my appearance from random men. It's nice if my boyfriend tells me I look nice when I've made an effort. It's not nice when much older men target women young enough to be their daughter or granddaughter.

Just make sure your well mannered, polite son doesn't expect that to confer any special privilege and I'm sure he'll be fine.

I get irritated by this faux concern for men that they might accidentally sexualy assault a woman or accidently overstep the mark verbally in the normal process of being polite and well mannered...

Bettygirl · 16/04/2022 20:24

Would he have made that comment to a 14 year old boy? Chances are not. Why should women have behave in a way a strange man thinks they should, why should he feel it is his right to have an opinion on your daughters mood, let alone feel entitled to articulate it. I would love to know how he would react if a man told him to 'smile love'!

GreyCarpet · 16/04/2022 20:26

@Comedycook

I know for a fact my sons would NEVER tell girls they don't know to smile. They're well aware it's rude and inappropriate and creepy. If you've brought your boy up properly he will know that too

Exactly. My ds was only 9 years old when he said to me "mum, why do men in vans stare at women?". I explained they look because they want to see if the woman is pretty, which is very rude as women are going out for all sorts of reasons and not to provide these men with something attractive to gaze at. He once shouted at a passing lorry "stop staring at my mum".

I love that! Your son sounds great Grin

My daughter is 15, pretty, slim, blonde... I can see sleazy olden looking at her. Sometimes they look at me to find I'm already watching them with a stony glare. Sometimes they look uncomfortable and turn away. I assume many of them just think I'm jealous that men are looking at her now and not me now I'm over 40 and losing my looks. Obvs... 🙄

Walkingthedog46 · 16/04/2022 20:27

A random man said this to me - the day after my husband died.

IAMGE · 16/04/2022 20:29

@OceanAtTheEnd

Because women don't owe men smiles, we don't owe them anything. It means Be pliable, love. Just no, fuck off (not you OP).
This. No stranger has any right to demand a facial expression for them and expect them to comply
ThisMammaCat · 16/04/2022 20:36

A man said similar to me not long after I lost a baby. I told him why I didn't feel like cheering up. He was mortified, and I hope he thought twice before saying it to anyone else. It's such a stupid thing to say, the mind boggles!

EssexLioness · 16/04/2022 20:56

@llm24 I find your attitude strange. If you have genuinely brought your son up well, you won’t need to worry about this because he will already be aware how inappropriate it is to ‘compliment’ random women on the street. if you feel this is a risk then you need to put more work into raising your son to see women as equals. It really isn’t the minefield you are making it out to be.

This all reminds me of this video I saw a while ago

AliceW89 · 16/04/2022 20:58

@Lesperance

I don't get the angst, to be honest. Nice men don't do this, nasty ones do. If you are hanging around or bringing up the nasty ones, you have a problem. If the men in your life are delightful, then why the angst? This is not a "not all men..." scenario. This is just about men who are too stupid not to keep their mouth shut.
Because it’s not just the nasty men. The otherwise completely nice men, who wouldn’t dream of telling a random woman to ‘give us a smile, love’ often still don’t realise the privilege their gender gives them. I have a 2 year old - my otherwise extremely lovely male boss keeps saying ‘surely it’s time to have another’. No thought that pregnancy and giving birth still kills women every year in the UK, no thought on how a year off affects my earnings, pension and career progression. He’s literally never had to consider these issues - and tellingly not a single woman at my organisations has asked me when I’m cracking on with number 2. It’s all different facets of a society where women are still often second class (subconsciously or otherwise), no matter how nice the men are. You can’t tackle the blatant misogyny without tackling the system on which it is built.
titchy · 16/04/2022 20:59

a nice thing to say, he wants me to be happy

Well no, that's not why he said it. He said it because he wanted her to look pretty - for him. Women are not there to please the eyes of men - that reduces them to objects, not people in their own right.

That said - she'll learn!

llm24 · 16/04/2022 21:10

@EssexLioness

How dare you suggest I have not brought my son up well and I certainly don’t need advice from you

I have absolutely no worries he will continue to be a well mannered , polite young man
So do not worry about that

Maybe you need to
meant to respect other
people opinions on matters

mamabr · 16/04/2022 21:12

He's a fucking nonce..
piss off we don't owe you anything.

She's young and likely wont understand yet

JassyRadlett · 16/04/2022 21:14

[quote llm24]@Comedycook

So if any of your male relatives said to a lady / girl cheer up or smile and they took it the wrong complained about it i’m sure you would be the first to say he was only being nice

Why oh why do we always think the worse in people ?[/quote]
If any of my male relatives did anything like this, I'd tear a strip off them for their extreme presumptuousness in assuming they have any right to tell another person how to present themselves in public.

And then take them to the GP because I'd be seriously concerned at such extremely out-of-character behaviour, because thankfully none of my male relatives are misogynistic twats.

What is the possible 'nice' motivation in telling someone to cheer up? Why do men trying to be 'nice' only do it to women and girls, not other men?

FOJN · 16/04/2022 21:15

EssexLioness
Sorry repeating link.

I do agree with you a bit though because god forbid a bloke chat a woman up in this climate now

My favourite line, "no but it's fun to pretend to be confused about it."

Cwenthryth · 16/04/2022 21:15

He doesn’t “want her to be happy”. He wants her to perform sexual attractiveness for his male gaze. Paedo.

Mother87 · 16/04/2022 21:15

@thenightsky

I always wish I had a gun and I could shoot at their feet and shout... 'dance, dance for me you fucker'.
ThisGrinGrinGrin
EssexLioness · 16/04/2022 21:25

[quote llm24]@EssexLioness

How dare you suggest I have not brought my son up well and I certainly don’t need advice from you

I have absolutely no worries he will continue to be a well mannered , polite young man
So do not worry about that

Maybe you need to
meant to respect other
people opinions on matters[/quote]
I didn’t suggest that. I said that if you have brought him up to respect women and treat them equally then you have no reason to post your concern. Your son won’t get into trouble for ‘complimenting’ women he doesn’t know eg by looking at them (your example btw) IF you have already told him how disrespectful/ threatening this be. So no problem for you to be worried about. If he doesn’t understand this yet then I was merely pointing out that this is one way to ease your concerns whilst also ensuring your son doesn’t get accused of harrassing women in the future. If your son doesn’t harass women when he is older he won’t have a problem will he 🤷‍♀️

WhatNowwwww · 16/04/2022 21:29

I've taught my daughter to respond with 'fuck off'. Gone past the point of witty retorts or trying to get these men to question why they do it. Just fuck off. I'm a northerner too btw.
Be careful... you don't want her to be in danger if a man becomes angry by her telling him to fuck off. Although I totally agree he should fuck off!

This is why I won’t tell my daughter to do that, but I admit I do tell men to fuck off if they tell me to smile. It makes me absolutely furious, wankers!

EssexLioness · 16/04/2022 21:30

[quote llm24]@Comedycook

So if any of your male relatives said to a lady / girl cheer up or smile and they took it the wrong complained about it i’m sure you would be the first to say he was only being nice

Why oh why do we always think the worse in people ?[/quote]
You say you bring your son up to be well mannered and to respect women but you don’t even seem to understand the issues yourself! This is never meant in a nice way. If someone was concerned about someone else, walking up to someone and demanding they smile or cheer up isn’t very kind! It is actually dismissing their feelings. As pointed out above something terrible could’ve happened to that person which makes it even worse. A couple of times I’ve been concerned about a stranger as they look upset, so I have gone over and asked if they are ok or need any help. I certainly didn’t walk up to them and tell them to cheer up and I don’t believe any sensible caring person would approach someone they were worried about in this manner.

iklboo · 16/04/2022 21:32

It's fucking annoying & they never, ever say it to blokes.

GreyCarpet · 16/04/2022 21:33

[quote llm24]@Comedycook

I too have a teenage son whom has been brought up to respect girls but I do worry that if he said /looked at a girl that it could be taken any other way than the way than the compliment that it was meant[/quote]
It's not a compliment when random men 'look' or say things to you in the street.

It's just not.

It's for his benefit. It's not a compliment to any woman beyond those who haven't the capacity to critically evaluate.

It's not a compliment when they insert themselves into a conversation you're having with your friend in the pub.

It's not a compliment when they tell you to smile or cheer up.

Snugglepumpkin · 16/04/2022 21:37

It is no womans job to 'perform femininity' for men.

Any man who thinks he has the right to expect a woman will wear the facial expression he would prefer is a misogynist.

Any of them who would be so incredibly rude as to say that out loud is an absolute pig.

Women don't have to 'cheer up' or 'smile' just because some man can see their expression & wants them to change it.

You don't see men going round telling random strangers who are men & boys on the street to cheer up as they pass.

OrangeBananaFish · 16/04/2022 21:39

As someone with resting bitch face this has been said to me many times. Most often I'm not even aware that I'm looking miserable until its ever so kindly pointed out to me. I'm just out and about carrying on with my business. Then some fucker tells me to smile or cheer up. So either I do as I'm told like a polite little woman or I get annoyed therefore confirming their assumption that I'm a miserable cow. I usually just ignore.

I hadn't noticed until this thread, but it is usually men who do this. In fact I can't think of a time when it was a woman TBH. I've also noticed now I'm getting older its said less and less often. Thank fuck for that. Twats.

Oh and I was happy to be chatted up in a polite manner. As long as the other person wasn't sleazy and took a hint if/when I wasn't interested.

Bettygirl · 17/04/2022 00:36

Thanks for that, gave me a good laugh Easter Grin