"Give us a smile love" - why is this so wrong?

[bonfireheart]

DD is 14 - I see men glance at her but nothing usually to worry about. Today we were in the city centre and she was walking behind me with a very heavy bag after a long tiring day minding her own business and an older man said "give us a smile love". She seemed to find it funny and that it was "a nice thing to say, he wants me to be happy" and I really couldn't articulate to her why what he said was so wrong...now I'm doubting myself, am I being too precious?!

@Nelliephant1

There's nothing wrong with it, just as there's nothing wrong with wolf whistling or a bit of harmless cat calling. It can and does raise a smile for both parties it's just part of the ridiculous "me too" movements agenda.

So why don't women do it to men?

Like I said the man might have genuinely trying to be nice

What's especially nice about telling someone to cheer up or smile? It's not being caring...it's dictating and an attempt to control a stranger. Women don't do this. I'm a 40 year old woman, I wouldn't in a million years say "cheer up" or "smile" to a random teenage boy.

@Comedycook

So if any of your male relatives said to a lady / girl cheer up or smile and they took it the wrong complained about it i’m sure you would be the first to say he was only being nice

Why oh why do we always think the worse in people ?

Because it’s part of a bigger picture of often low level, subtle harassment that women face every single day just going about their business. That men will never, ever know.

The last time a stranger said this to me, I asked him why my facial expression was any concern of his? He looked a bit surprised mumbled something and walked away.
Hate this with an absolute passion, thankfully I’m in my 50’s and isn’t something that happens much to me me now, but my god, when I was younger it was constant and I’m a reasonably happy person. I just don’t wander round grinning like a loon

Doesn't matter how tired/pissed off/unhappy you are, you are more attractive when you smile and that's all that matters. Wanker.

[quote llm24]@Comedycook

So if any of your male relatives said to a lady / girl cheer up or smile and they took it the wrong complained about it i’m sure you would be the first to say he was only being nice

Why oh why do we always think the worse in people ?[/quote]
They wouldn't do that. If they did,I'd happily tell them why it's not acceptable.

I have a teenage ds...If he grows up and thinks its acceptable to tell random women in the street what to do, I'd feel like I'd failed.

Oh I think the lioness in me would have pounced on him

It's part of "benign misogyny" - the man doing this isn't consciously hateful towards women but definitely doesn't value females as fully valid human beings worthy of the same respect as males. Males have every right to think and feel as they choose but the purpose of a female is to be decorative and nice, and serve to improve the mood and wellbeing of any men in their vicinity even if entirely unrelated to them.

The same goes for the encouraging "keep it up love" calls that I get shouted at me when I run - I am sure that no men get similar "encouragement" because they are respectful of the fact that a man has no need for their approval, but a woman is supposed to be happy to receive any kind of compliment from anyone as they are basically public property unless they are visibly being escorted by a man.

There's nothing wrong with it, just as there's nothing wrong with wolf whistling or a bit of harmless cat calling. It can and does raise a smile for both parties it's just part of the ridiculous "me too" movements agenda.

It's just a bit of cat-calling, it's harmless.

It's just a bit of banter, it's harmless.

Its just a friendly pat on the bottom, it's harmless.

It's just a cheeky grope, it's harmless.

It's just a rape, it harmle - .... oh, wait. It's not harmless.

Cat-calling, banter, policing emotions ("smile, love!") are the base on which misogyny is built and you don't get to decide which bits of it are harmless. Allowing everyday sexism is allowing continued intrusion into the rights of women, it undermines our equality, and it gives the greenlight to those men who want to take it further than "a bit of banter" by creating a culture where women are lesser.

@Comedycook

I too have a teenage son whom has been brought up to respect girls but I do worry that if he said /looked at a girl that it could be taken any other way than the way than the compliment that it was meant

@llm24

Genuine question

Why do people always think the worst of people
The girl didn’t think he meant any harm by it
Why make a deal out of something , yeah if he had whistled or used other condescending words then yeah as a mother I wouldn’t have been happy
I really worry for my 13 year old son growing up in this world sometimes 😞

Don't worry, lim

My son is 23. He's so far avoided treating women with disrespect or expecting them to be decorative for him.

I'm sure your son can maange it too...

So if any of your male relatives said to a lady / girl cheer up or smile and they took it the wrong complained about it i’m sure you would be the first to say he was only being nice

I taught my children from a young age that it is rude and inappropriate to comment on other people's appearances and actions, especially when they are people we do not know and particularly when we have not been specifically asked for our opinion. That would cover things such as "smile, love" or "cheer up".

If small children can manage it...

If it's new to her, and you live in an area where there's not a lot of street harassment, it probably does seem harmless and even flattering. And you were with her so she felt safe.

Give it a year, she'll be thoroughly sick of it by then.

@GreyCarpet

I’m genuinely worried for my well
mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that
I have no doubt that he would ever treat any girl with a lack of respect

@BlusteryLake

It's wrong because it is only ever said by men to women, and implies that women should be compliant and smiley for the benefit of men, even if they don't feel like it.

Ive had it said to me when I was young by women (those type of women who are 'characters') but mainly men.

[quote llm24]@GreyCarpet

I’m genuinely worried for my well
mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that
I have no doubt that he would ever treat any girl with a lack of respect[/quote]
There's a time and a place.

Middle aged man telling a 14 year old CHILD to smile is not a compliment

I'm sure when your ds is older and is enjoying a chat with a woman who wants to talk to him too and he tells her she looks lovely, no one will take any offence!

[quote llm24]@GreyCarpet

I’m genuinely worried for my well
mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that
I have no doubt that he would ever treat any girl with a lack of respect[/quote]
But in this case, its not a compliment, its a criticism, its 'you look miserable and you're meant to look smiley for me'.

I do agree with you a bit though because god forbid a bloke chat a woman up in this climate now.

I find that even my Mum says it to me sometimes, and it used to drive me mad as a child, as much as when strangers did it. I guess she perhaps thought that other people would judge me for not smiling, or that I'd not be attractive enough, or that people would judge her for not teaching me to smile, or something, I don't really know! But it isn't always men or strangers.

Looks like I'm on my own but this really doesn't bother me. Someone shouts, you either ignore or acknowledge them and get on with your day. Why does there have to be so much angst over everything...? 🙄

@MrsJBaptiste

I’m with you we always want to think the worse in people

I would look exactly the same as the OP daughter after a day shopping tired and miserable

I would laugh if someone said it to me and wouldn’t take it any other than that

A random man told my sister to smile as she stood at the entrance to a hospital. She informed him that she had just been given a diagnosis of cancer (which eventually killed her). He stuttered out an apology and that he ‘didn’t know’. Of course he didn’t know. She was a complete stranger. Apparently he had never considered that a person looking upset in a hospital might have a good reason.
To demand a smile from someone else is just wrong in itself( you have no right to police the emotions of strangers) and might possibly be very upsetting.

@Nelliephant1 's comment is surely sarcastic and making a point? "A bit of harmless cat calling!

I do agree with you a bit though because god forbid a bloke chat a woman up in this climate now

I absolutely hate this line. Like most women I have experienced plenty of occasions in my life of men expressing interest in me, chatting me up, or asking me out. I have also experienced plenty of cat calling, men parking up to call out to me including trying to just get me to get in the car :S, have been flashed, groped, etc.

There is a bloody huge difference between reciprocal, respectful courting which is done by having some social skills and gauging the woman's response, and being an absolute creep, or being in any other way unfairly persistent or unwelcome.

Anyone who states the like of "god forbid a man try and talk to a woman" is part of the problem IMO.

[quote llm24]@GreyCarpet

I’m genuinely worried for my well
mannered , polite son that giving a girl a compliment that it could be construed as something more than that
I have no doubt that he would ever treat any girl with a lack of respect[/quote]
If he is well mannered and polite he won't do it, will he?
Have you brought him up with basic good sense, even? I don't know why you are worrying about this, if you have brought him up properly, when he is a grown man, he will know not to say ANYTHING AT ALL to a year old girl who he does not know, in the street.

@llm24 I know for a fact my sons would NEVER tell girls they don't know to smile. They're well aware it's rude and inappropriate and creepy. If you've brought your boy up properly he will know that too.