Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

997 replies

HappyWinter · 11/04/2022 21:30

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
blueshoes · 14/04/2022 21:59

If they can sink a flagship what the hell is going on with all those soldiers currently deployed in Ukraine and why have tens of thousands of families not heard from husbands/sons/brothers when according to state media less than 2k have died?

It must be agony for those left behind not to know, waiting and waiting but no news. They might have been speaking to the soldier on a mobile a few hours ago and then suddenly nothing and no one to ask or no one gets back to them.

I read that Russia pays the family a generous sum if their son dies in battle. If Russia is not even keeping count of their dead, how will these families get payment?

Mind you, my sympathy is very much tempered if the soldier is a drunk genocidal rapist in which case may he burn slowly in hell.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 14/04/2022 22:15

I read that Russia pays the family a generous sum if their son dies in battle

Oh well that's ok then, dead son = generous sum. What's the going rate for a dead son nowadays in Russia ?

Ijsbear · 14/04/2022 22:21

first answer I found:

Vladimir Putin has publicly announced that the families of those die as a result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine will receive 41,228 euros in compensation, while those who are wounded will get 24,795 euros.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 22:22

Michael McKay @mhmck
Ukrainian counter-attacks threaten to cut-off the Russian salient at Izyum in southern Kharkiv region. To the east of Izyum, the invaders have been pushed back approximately 30 km. Ukrainian defenders have advanced almost to the strategic town of Borova.

Ukrainian artillery is able to strike all the Russian supply routes to Izyum. With the rearguard under Ukrainian fire control, the Russian vanguard in this battlefront sector is cut off.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine are able to strike Russian supply lines at will – back to the international border in some areas. This is why the Russian offensive will fail in the east of Ukraine as it failed in the north.

All the major roads to Izyum are controlled by Ukraine except one: the crossing of the Oskil's'ke reservoir at Borova.

Minor roads are an issue for heavy vehicles. Theres talk of the effects of spring (rain and mud) which means the Russians have to stick have to stick to roads.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 20
Ukraine Invasion: Part 20
herecomesthsun · 14/04/2022 22:24

Found another dancing video, Zelensky appears to be channelling Johannes in this one (is it really him?)

Alexandra2001 · 14/04/2022 22:28

It must be agony for those left behind not to know, waiting and waiting but no news. They might have been speaking to the soldier on a mobile a few hours ago and then suddenly nothing and no one to ask or no one gets bac

I'm i the only one who couldn't care less about Russian relatives?

All my sympathy is with the Ukrainians, not the families of the monsters who have brutally murdered so many innocents.

BreadInCaptivity · 14/04/2022 22:30

@Wrongkindofovercoat

I read that Russia pays the family a generous sum if their son dies in battle

Oh well that's ok then, dead son = generous sum. What's the going rate for a dead son nowadays in Russia ?

This was covered in another thread.

It's circa 45k in dollars, which is a staggering sum for many poor Russian families.

One poster noted how after the Vietnam war where the compensation was circa 10k dollars one solider they knew said his relationship with his family never recovered when he realised they'd rather have had the money than him home safe.

Of course there will be many, many families who will be angst ridden right now wondering about the fate of their sons, for whom no amount of money will compensate for their loss.

However sadly there are also some who will justify what has happened to their child and the righteousness of Russia as a fair exchange in monetary the value of their loss and what it can provide for their family that remains.

Igotjelly · 14/04/2022 22:34

I actually do have sympathy for the Russian families. Lots of these soldiers are little more than children and many of them will not have engaged in war crimes. No family deserves to go through losing sons/fathers/brothers etc.

Igotjelly · 14/04/2022 22:34

Obviously that’s not to detract from the horrors facing the poor Ukrainian people.

blueshoes · 14/04/2022 22:36

BreadInCaptivity thanks for clarifying.

Do we know whether these payments for dead soldiers actually being made. If Russia undercounts its dead and wounded soldiers, then presumably that also saves them having to pay out compensation money. The officers could also say the soldiers deserted instead.

In battle, presumably there is no way to find out especially if Russian BTGs get cut off.

I have absolutely no sympathy for murderous soldiers. I am just thinking it is unlikely Putin would actually hold up his side of the bargain.

Igotjelly · 14/04/2022 22:36

GrinGrin

Ukraine Invasion: Part 20
ScrollingLeaves · 14/04/2022 22:39

@Wrongkindofovercoat

“I read that Russia pays the family a generous sum if their son dies in battle”

Oh well that's ok then, dead son = generous sum. What's the going rate for a dead son nowadays in Russia ?

This has come up before on one of these threads, quite a few back. I think I recall it is about £60,000.

blueshoes · 14/04/2022 22:40

@Igotjelly

GrinGrin
Skillful play on words ... in English too Grin
ScrollingLeaves · 14/04/2022 22:43

Sorry, I see ljsbear found another sum.

Ijsbear · 14/04/2022 22:52

many tens of thousands covers it =)

I dont know if Russian widows get a military pension or if that payment covers it all

BreadInCaptivity · 14/04/2022 22:55

@Alexandra2001

It must be agony for those left behind not to know, waiting and waiting but no news. They might have been speaking to the soldier on a mobile a few hours ago and then suddenly nothing and no one to ask or no one gets bac

I'm i the only one who couldn't care less about Russian relatives?

All my sympathy is with the Ukrainians, not the families of the monsters who have brutally murdered so many innocents.

Probably not.

However Putin has created a state where he controls the narrative.

It's easy for us to forget how rural and poor much of Russia is and where state media is the only source of information.

As poster above discussed many educated young Russians have got the hell out. They know what's going on and are savvy enough and have the tech to be able to access alternative news sources.

That's not true for many - the poorest who are not exempt from conscription because they are not at university due to not having access to a good education.

These people are not inherently evil or bad. They are manipulated and indoctrinated and there will be many desperately worried parents who hate "Ukrainian Nazi's" because that's what they genuinely believe their children are fighting against.

Are my sympathies with Ukrainian? Of course and I want them to prevail. But I don't think that's incompatible with feeling sympathy with Russians who have lost loved ones in this war.

Frankly my target is firmly fixed where it deserves to be, on Putin.

BreadInCaptivity · 14/04/2022 23:02

@Igotjelly

GrinGrin

GrinGenius!

Honestly aside from all the military commentary, there is a lot to be said at how well Ukrainians have managed the media (social and broadcast) during this war.

They've outclassed the Russians at every turn.

Ijsbear · 14/04/2022 23:03

well said Bread

ScrollingLeaves · 14/04/2022 23:04

@RedToothBrush
Thanks for the reminder of your post 12 April on this thread 18:54

As Russian conscripts have been the subject recently perhaps others would be interested to see it again.

There's been a few videos over the last few days of how men are being forcable taken in the DPR by Russian soldiers

meduza.io/feature/2022/04/12/vseh-muzhchin-puskayut-na-pushechnoe-myaso

“All men are allowed to be cannon fodder” Many residents of the DPR have been hiding from forced mobilization for war for 50 days. Here is the story of one of them”

I'm afraid to talk about myself. But in short, I'm twenty-two years old. Last year I graduated from the university, but I won’t say who I studied for for security reasons. Born in Lugansk, but spent all his life in Donetsk. We have a small city - even what I said, with all the vagueness, may be enough for me to be identified. I agreed to give an interview out of desperation. I don't see life here.

And

Because of the massive conscription [to the war], virtually the entire male population, regardless of loyalty or political persuasion, is now simply hiding. Everyone is sitting at home. Nobody goes out [on the street]. None. The call affects everyone under the age of sixty. My father is only fifty-two, he hides with his parents at home.

Now there are rumors that door-to-door rounds have begun. It's not even a matter of subpoenas, and it's not about catching those who got caught on the street. They [representatives of the DPR] go from house to house. I don't know if they're breaking down the doors or not, but they're looking for conscripts. Therefore, every time when male voices, steps and the like are heard, it is very alarming

And

I hide alone. Once a week, either my mother, or a girl, or a grandmother come to me. The neighbors were told that I had moved out, and they just come to my apartment to clean up. They bring me food, we talk for about an hour. Previously, they came more often, once every two days, but over time, the number of commandant's offices increased, the number of shelling increased, and relatives had to cut the number of visits. You have to do this during the morning rush hour, when it is more difficult to track down an individual car on the street. Otherwise, they will ask questions, check phones.

And

Already a lot of people have been taken. For example, all students - they were called up under the threat of immediate expulsion at the very beginning of the war. And at the enterprises they took documents and created lists [subject to conscription]. My friend's father has diabetes and is in the hospital. They constantly come there and try to get him discharged and sent to the front. The man is fifty-something years old. They don't give a damn about his diabetes.

Recently, my uncle, who works in one of the state structures of Luhansk, called me and said that the command of the Russian troops was allegedly dissatisfied with the recruitment of conscripts from Donetsk - that they feel sorry for the locals and do not take as much as they could, they do not fit into the quota. He warned me to hide even more.

And

Everything feels like a bad dream that has no beginning and no end. We exist automatically. Sometimes, well, they'll bring something delicious to eat. And that's not how distractions work. My friend says he drinks. He lives in the suburbs, his girlfriend brings him food. Drinks every day to comfort himself. From communication with him, I got the impression that he went crazy.

I don't get along with alcohol, so I just sit. I lost contact with almost everyone today. I hope that the people who live here can, if not live at home in peace, at least be able to escape. Even this is a privilege that most of the population does not have

Ijsbear · 14/04/2022 23:07

Agreed about the media war but Navalny's urging to take the information war -into- Russia should be listened to. It's been one-way for a long time.

TiddyTidTwo · 14/04/2022 23:26

Breaking: Air raid alerts almost all over Ukraine's territory now. The sinking of Moskva ship obviously wasn't well received in Moscow

ShinyHat22 · 14/04/2022 23:45

@TiddyTidTwo where did you hear that?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 14/04/2022 23:56

On the subject of Russian peculation and its poor effect on the Russian war effort, this today from Beau of the Fifth Column seemed to me to make sense of several things which had puzzled me:

9:48 long, and anyone who finds Beau irritating won't like it, but I think it's an interesting possibility.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2022 23:59

@TiddyTidTwo

Breaking: Air raid alerts almost all over Ukraine's territory now. The sinking of Moskva ship obviously wasn't well received in Moscow
That's pretty typical tbf. Ive seen that fairly frequently.
blueshoes · 15/04/2022 00:25

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime that Beau guy is pretty annoying, I'll give you that.

His message seems to be that a special directorate called the 'Fifth service' was set up by Russia in 1998. This directorate was tasked to gather intelligence in former Soviet states, including fund a resistance group within Ukraine. However, the Russian officers siphoned off the money instead and sent fake reports to the Kremlin leading Putin to believe that his invasion would in fact receive support in Ukraine from these large resistance groups. But they did not exist. The Russian war effort which looked so inept at every turn now makes sense because it wouldn't have been had those resistance groups actually existed. He says that these are unverifiable rumours but if they were to be believed, explains a lot of the Russian missteps.

Apparently the head of this directorate is now in 'very bad' prison, which is the Russian equivalent of gitmo and 150 Russian officers fired from service. This seriously hamstrings Russian intelligence because greedy as they were, those officers knew what was going on at least enough to send fake reports

Anyway, this reminds of when the US pulled out of Afghanistan. The Afghanistan army melted away and reportedly probably did not exist anyway in the numbers that were supposed to be there because of corruption and theft.