Money saving expert thinks civil unrest is coming

[ivykaty44]

There was a thread on mumsnet recently about civil unrest, views seemed to be it wouldn’t happen, the British don’t protest

Martin Lewis thinks hungry cold people will protest

I think he could be correct, what have people unable to afford heat and food got to lose?

Posters on here are scathing about new money which I don't understand. Why is a footballer who likes labels & flash cars somehow not as good a person as someone who drives in a banger but lives in a stately home. Let's not forgot that often some of their ancestors obtained the land/money nefariously.!

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Wfh won’t reduce costs now. You need to heat the place you work

A season ticket from here into London (approx 40mins) is c. £6k pa. If there are two of you not having to pay that (or coffees and lunch and smart clothes) you're saving a lot of money.

@colosmbo people are scathing about new money everywhere... but the difference is that in other countries like in Asia, there is very little old money!

Ways to tackle that are notoriously unpopular amongst generally otherwise quite socialist Brits - higher inheritance tax, lower taxes on medium level salaries and so on.

It's all backwards anyway. If house prices weren't so high people wouldn't feel the need to protect that for their dc in order to help them on the ladder.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow I live in zone 3 london and commuting to work costs £7.20 (round trip) per day. Does heating my second bedroo really cost £7.20 a day? I take my lunch and I already own smart clothes. And I live more centrally than most of my colleagues.

I have to go into work though at least 3 X a week and that is the case for me and DH and most people we know. Even my colleagues who live in northampton and leicester.

Maybe i am sheltered. but on mumsnet, there are people nonchalantly saying- I am giving a deposit to my kid (who is still in his/her teens) as if it was as natural as saying I am paying for my DD's piano lessons and buying her first perfume on her 16th birthday! Its almost as if it is expected and you are a bad parent if you don't plan to give your adult child a deposit!

yep you're a bad parent if you don't give your child a deposit (although if you are the dc you should never expect inheritance according to other threads).
What do you do if you don't have help?

@colosmbo I thought they were giving money to their DC when they were 58 to avoid paying inheritance tax! Cos they would be quite sure they are not going to die in the next 7 years.

@Silverclocks but not for all the people that work close to home or don't pay for tickets etc etc
My commute is 10 mins in the car and I don't buy lunch etc at work

@desiringonlychild2022

I can totally understand the royal family thing. Somehow I can't see people bowing and scraping like they used to, to this extremely privileged family who won't be affected in the slightest by all the misery of rising prices. I think the days of looking up to our betters are gone.

But there are so many people in london who are richer than the royal family... I mean, I am a republican so I don't think having a royal family is in line with the 21st century but the royal family being wealthy isn't the reason that I think it should be abolished. Sometimes I think that getting rid of the royal family might be a step in the right direction in abolishing the class system, but some members of the landed gentry are far from rich and we still idolize them as a society. Even the fact that their clothes are covered in dog hair and they drive a beat up car.

I think the royal family and the landed gentry just aren’t as wealthy as the new money around. That “new money” though how much tax is being generated. Probably not as much as the royals etc pay in tax. I think targeting the royals and the gentry of this country is focusing on the wrong people.
I almost feel like anything that is truly a British thing is trying to be dismantled but the target should be those with much more money who don’t pay what they should.

The Queen pays around £4-5 million in income tax. Starbucks pays around £2million
And there are people who make even more money who pay no tax at all

Shouldn’t our focus be on those people

@Hrpuffnstuff1

Yet record numbers are going away on holiday this Easter. What's going on apart from the Brits moaning. Statistically, we have too many indigenous members of society who are net negative contributors to society. Eu migrants skilled and unskilled happen to be net positive. Why? I just think we have a swathe of people who are incapable of making prudent well thought planned fiscal decisions. Then want everyone else to pick up the slack.

Are they all necessarily indigenous?

I think the people not contributing may be from all sections of society and perhaps it can't be helped at times

I don't know anyone who didn't get help tbh.

Nor do I but it's been more of the variety of living at home or 10k amongst my childhood friends. It's only since my area has gentrified & i've made school mum friends that I've seen this whole other world. It's normal to have holidays paid for, 20k here or there for home improvements, cars bought, school fees paid & huge help onto & up the ladder. It's eye opening & despite a good income we are moving out of the area as we just can't afford the next step up the ladder.

[quote desiringonlychild2022]@ArseInTheCoOpWindow I live in zone 3 london and commuting to work costs £7.20 (round trip) per day. Does heating my second bedroo really cost £7.20 a day? I take my lunch and I already own smart clothes. And I live more centrally than most of my colleagues.

I have to go into work though at least 3 X a week and that is the case for me and DH and most people we know. Even my colleagues who live in northampton and leicester.[/quote]
In my house heating a bedroom would cost more than £7.20 per day.

[quote MrOllivander]@Silverclocks but not for all the people that work close to home or don't pay for tickets etc etc
My commute is 10 mins in the car and I don't buy lunch etc at work [/quote]
Nothing is going to apply to everyone, but there are lots of people already on a comfortable income who are having this kind of "windfall" and it does probably apply more to those already living in comfort.

That was exactly my point. Lots of people are struggling, buyt lots of people are actually feeling OK (hence busy restaurants/airports etc).

Re riots/protests, it depends which are most likely to make themselves heard.

@desiringonlychild2022 there was a thread here the other day where a poster was worried about paying 60k ish in inheritance tax & trying to find ways to mitigate it. Her dc would still get 500k each. My opinion was just pay it.

Woodhill Statistically, we have too many indigenous members of society who are net negative contributors to society. Eu migrants skilled and unskilled happen to be net positive.

There do seem to be quite a lot of lazy people around - I really struggle to get contractors to do all types of work for the going rate as a lot of them can't be bothered if its not a bigger job or one they are over-charging for. Local businesses report problems with staff not turning up etc..

But OTOH can you blame people if theres nothing to work towards and salaries are low? People in the UK have grown up with the cushion of benefits and the NHS and being told that being aspirational is "snooty" and everyone is the same. The personal tax allowance is so unusually high in this country that many lower paid people pay no tax at all, which isn't the case in other European countries. Not paying tax disenfranchises people.

In my house heating a bedroom would cost more than £7.20 per day.

How can heating one room cost £7.30 per day.

Even if you used an expensive 1KW electric heater, have it on constantly and work a long day, 10 hours costs £2.83 at the new price cap.

[quote desiringonlychild2022]@SucculentChalice my colleague bought a 2 bed house in Essex as a single guy with help from his mum. He was giving advice to another colleague on how his mum structured the gift and that colleague is trying to figure out how to buy a 2 bed flat for her 18 year old son who is looking for an apprenticeship (so has never worked a day in his life).These are not rich people. can you imagine what the rich people are doing?

I mean, I am a 20 something who bought my flat cos i lived rent free with DH's family for 3 years (and DH was on free school meals as a kid). I did get money from my family but only fairly recently and after I bought (around £11k). But I feel sorry for the 20 somethings who never got such help, I don't know anyone who didn't get help tbh. Maybe i am sheltered. but on mumsnet, there are people nonchalantly saying- I am giving a deposit to my kid (who is still in his/her teens) as if it was as natural as saying I am paying for my DD's piano lessons and buying her first perfume on her 16th birthday! Its almost as if it is expected and you are a bad parent if you don't plan to give your adult child a deposit![/quote]
I used to work in conveyancing and it was shocking how many parents just bought their offspring a luxury flat. One that stuck in my mind was the one who bought in one of those flashy over-priced glass and steel city centre developments. The tv and sound system were included as extras in the sale price as well. The son was a student at the local university and the flat cost over 350k (not London). The farmer father had the money because he had sold part of his land for housing development.

The zoning system of planning in this country in my opinion is outdated and leads to poor development and removes opportunities for people who want to self build. If a certain percentage of new builds had to be self build (e.g. 25%) that would improve matters. Instead, the market is rigged in favour of big developers.

I think the royal family and the landed gentry just aren’t as wealthy as the new money around.
That “new money” though how much tax is being generated. Probably not as much as the royals etc pay in tax.
I think targeting the royals and the gentry of this country is focusing on the wrong people.
I almost feel like anything that is truly a British thing is trying to be dismantled but the target should be those with much more money who don’t pay what they should.

you mean like Mogg? one of the landed gentry, its the old rich who really know how to hide it all away from the tax man, they hoard money and are tight out of fear of being poor. the new rich spend it and enjoy themselves and probably dont dodge as much tax out of decency and naivety about how much they can dodge.

@SucculentChalice

Woodhill Statistically, we have too many indigenous members of society who are net negative contributors to society. Eu migrants skilled and unskilled happen to be net positive.

There do seem to be quite a lot of lazy people around - I really struggle to get contractors to do all types of work for the going rate as a lot of them can't be bothered if its not a bigger job or one they are over-charging for. Local businesses report problems with staff not turning up etc..

But OTOH can you blame people if theres nothing to work towards and salaries are low? People in the UK have grown up with the cushion of benefits and the NHS and being told that being aspirational is "snooty" and everyone is the same. The personal tax allowance is so unusually high in this country that many lower paid people pay no tax at all, which isn't the case in other European countries. Not paying tax disenfranchises people.

50% are net negative contributors to the economy. I agree with the lack of drive, entitlement, and lack of strategic planning to offset problems. Half the population pay zero tax as its subsidized. Globally British workers are the saggy arse compared to their immigrant counterparts.

I run a contracting business and we're busy, I've taken 3 weeks off to spend time with my children then go on holiday. Rates are high and I choose my customers. I cannot get a joiner to build me a cabinet so you're not on your own there. I had 2 staff not turn up last Monday and Tuesday. Rates were £300 per day, paid on completion via BACS.

Thing is how did we get here? In 2022? In a wealthy country?

I think we got here because we have long assumed the rights and freedoms that were fought for, and won, were permanent and could not be taken away. i.e. that a country can only progress and not degress.

This is not true and I have been worried for the last 5+ years that we (the West) are seeing the end of democracy and the rise of facism once more. But we've not been awake to it.

Now, I don't have a crystal ball and have no idea if people will riot, if fate will twist back in favour of democracy or if things will continue to get worse. But I do strongly believe, now, that our rights should never, ever be taken for granted or assumed to be permanent. I am now genuinely of the opion that the world remains full of people who would take them away for their own benefit and who do not give a shiny shit how much pain they cause others.

I also think it's time this country, specifically, ended it's subservient relationship with class. Too many of our PMs come from Eton and have never live the kinds of lives most people lead. And our Royal Family is the cherry on that particular cake and should go. Not least because the Andrew/Epstein and Charles/Savile businesses show how it nutures people with shocking judgement and then places them in positions of massive influence.

am now genuinely of the opion that the world remains full of people who would take them away for their own benefit and who do not give a shiny shit how much pain they cause others

In other words, tory voters

its the old rich who really know how to hide it all away from the tax man

For sure...

www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/11/inheritance-tax-why-the-new-duke-of-westminster-will-not-pay-billions

p.s. This 'Trust' also claims almost £1m in tax subsisides a year so not just hiding money. Actively taking it.

@VelvetChairGirl

*I think the royal family and the landed gentry just aren’t as wealthy as the new money around. That “new money” though how much tax is being generated. Probably not as much as the royals etc pay in tax. I think targeting the royals and the gentry of this country is focusing on the wrong people. I almost feel like anything that is truly a British thing is trying to be dismantled but the target should be those with much more money who don’t pay what they should.*

you mean like Mogg? one of the landed gentry, its the old rich who really know how to hide it all away from the tax man, they hoard money and are tight out of fear of being poor. the new rich spend it and enjoy themselves and probably dont dodge as much tax out of decency and naivety about how much they can dodge.

Is Jacob Rees Mogg landed gentry or “new money”

I just thought he had a rich dad which would put him in the “new money” bracket which is exactly what I was saying that we need to target the “new money” as they are wealthier and pay less tax than those that are described as landed gentry.

Even then Rees Mogg might not pay tax, but compared to something like Starbucks or others who also don’t pay tax but live f/t in this country his “fortune” pales into insignificance.

I would totally get out into the streets to protest. I'm just one person though. Although I could be like Greta Thunberg and do solo protest.
Do you think I should?

@RomansTheyGoTheHouse

Thing is how did we get here? In 2022? In a wealthy country?

I think we got here because we have long assumed the rights and freedoms that were fought for, and won, were permanent and could not be taken away. i.e. that a country can only progress and not degress.

This is not true and I have been worried for the last 5+ years that we (the West) are seeing the end of democracy and the rise of facism once more. But we've not been awake to it.

Now, I don't have a crystal ball and have no idea if people will riot, if fate will twist back in favour of democracy or if things will continue to get worse. But I do strongly believe, now, that our rights should never, ever be taken for granted or assumed to be permanent. I am now genuinely of the opion that the world remains full of people who would take them away for their own benefit and who do not give a shiny shit how much pain they cause others.

I also think it's time this country, specifically, ended it's subservient relationship with class. Too many of our PMs come from Eton and have never live the kinds of lives most people lead. And our Royal Family is the cherry on that particular cake and should go. Not least because the Andrew/Epstein and Charles/Savile businesses show how it nutures people with shocking judgement and then places them in positions of massive influence.

my mother installed this in me, we have rights because the unions formed and fought for them, we didnt even have 1 day off work in the 1800s until people mobilized.

and just look at the titanic, well the relics in the archives from that, white star sending telegrams to families saying if you want the body you have to pay us for shipping (I think it was the equivalent of about 2k), the agents for the ships musicians billing the families for the lose of their rented off the agencies suits.

give the rich a inch and they will take a mile, always has been the case and always will be.