Cultural Appropriation being taken too far

[KitBumbleB]

DD is early secondary age and is exploring her hobbies and interests like other kids her age. One of her friends has discovered that she loves cooking and especially likes making Chinese food.
Last night DD was furiously typing on her phone and when I asked what was up she said one of her friends was having a go at the other for "cultural appropriation" because apparently cooking food of another culture or country is wrong.
The girl who likes cooking was incredibly upset and terrified of anyone else finding out as apparently this is the worst crime a tween can commit.

DD also tells me that according to TikTok, learning a language is also appropriation, especially Japanese as it is seen as fetishism

I know this is not AIBU, but am I the only one who thinks this is nonsense and is turning harmful, its like a mindless pile up.

DD and I are not white btw

@planetme

Ffs tiktok is such bollox

Ive never seen it but to be honest, these sorts of views and bullying is everywhere. The only news paper (online) I read is the Guardian but the comments on that are often just like the child in the OP, nonsense about what you can or can do, think, say with made up concepts to police this.

There are issues with cultural appropriation, but normally it boils down to respect. For example I saw a video on social media of someone making what they called stinky, spicy, superfood cabbage or similar. It was kimchi and not even a good recipe. There is also issues with people making content that obviously mocks Asian food. The eww they eat intestines, century eggs etc nonsense. Similar for fashion, wearing something you like isn't an issue but wearing it as a costume to mock people is wrong.
They are obsessed with race in America and kids spending far too much time on tiktok get pulled into this. I don't think we can fully understand it here in the UK because we don't have the same history. But most of these tiktokers take it too far and tiktok acts as an echo chamber. Most of these "creators" are stuck in a race and gender obsessed circle jerk and their realities are very small despite them having more opportunities to connect with the outside world than ever before.

The eww they eat intestines, century eggs etc

Manekinek do you think it’s acceptable for non British people to mock bread sauce?

Op if you’re still reading please ask your dd what she thinks of K-pop. I’m genuinely interested as I thought millions of teenagers worldwide adored it and it never occurred to me that non Koreans liking it would be considered cultural appropriation.

@Andante57

The eww they eat intestines, century eggs etc

Manekinek do you think it’s acceptable for non British people to mock bread sauce?

Op if you’re still reading please ask your dd what she thinks of K-pop. I’m genuinely interested as I thought millions of teenagers worldwide adored it and it never occurred to me that non Koreans liking it would be considered cultural appropriation.

People making videos of other countries foods and saying they dont like them isnt cultural appropriation anyway

There was a repeat of Rick Stein on the telly last night, he was in Iceland, tasting fermented shark and a dish of ammonia deep fried poured over skate. I dont need to be told thats going to be awful and it was
Its not cultural appropriation though, its looking at different food stuffs, the history of them and is very informative.

@Andante57

The eww they eat intestines, century eggs etc

Manekinek do you think it’s acceptable for non British people to mock bread sauce?

Op if you’re still reading please ask your dd what she thinks of K-pop. I’m genuinely interested as I thought millions of teenagers worldwide adored it and it never occurred to me that non Koreans liking it would be considered cultural appropriation.

I think there is a line with these things. I study Chinese and when we were learning about popular drinks all the students who had been to China exclaimed that bai jiu is really horrible. But they didn’t labour the point or go on about how GROSS and WEIRD it was.

There is another thread on here about what preoccupies other nations. I was reminded on that of a meal I had with some Italians where a woman was going on about how utterly filthy British people can be, and gave the example of drinking water from the tap. They way she said it was rude and unpleasant and, yes, I was insulted as intended.

Add in the power dynamics between different cultures and this can be more or less of an issue. Insulting British or US or Chinese norms is very different to mocking the cultures of people who have been dispossessed and have struggled to have a voice. For all the examples about tomatoes and fish and chips on here, how many posters would feel genuinely comfortable with someone who has no connection to the culture getting full Maori face tattoos because it looks cool? The problem with cultural appropriation isn’t that there is no value to the idea, but that it is being stretched to the point of absurdity.

Also, I agree that the EWW GROSS thing about food or other customs isn’t cultural appropriation so concepts are getting confused, although the question of respect is the common thread.

I don't think we should be mocking any food that is made properly and people enjoy. It's just childish and "influencers" who make money off videos of themselves doing this should be called out.

I never claimed in my post that this behaviour is cultural appropriation. It was used to highlight the lack of respect some people have towards cultures whilst making money from them. Take the foods you like, rebrand and rename them and then mock anything that isn't the norm in your country.

I think people thrive on being offended quite frankly.

I couldnt care less if someone took the micky out of british food, and they frequently do

How does it affect anyone if someone who is not Maori has Maori marks on their face?

I couldnt care less if someone took the micky out of british food, and they frequently do
You see how that's not the same, right?
It's not comparable because history shows how we have colonised other cultures and oppressed /started wars with them to claim their land etc, and tried to wipe out their culture.
To try and cherry pick which bits you think is nice for your own gain I can see why people would have a problem with that.

How does it affect anyone if someone who is not Maori has Maori marks on their face?
See above. Would be pretty offensive if you were taking an important symbolic part of someone's culture /belief etc just because you thought their face markings looked '' pretty '' or whatever completely disregarding the meaning behind.

I think people thrive on being offended quite frankly.

If we’re talking about Chinese cooking or bread sauce I absolutely agree.

When it comes to colonised people and use of their heritage by a dominant culture, in my opinion it’s not nearly so straightforward.

I was going to type out a longer response, but I know the reply would be dismissive of any view that doesn’t see words and symbols as purely functional.

So if British people in Britain go into a Chinese or other ethnic restaurant and spend a shedload of money on food , is it cultural appropriation? No its people of other ethnicities using their skills to make a living!! Has anyone ever asked a Maori if they are offended by someone getting a Maori style tattoo?
Maybe all these people have better things to do than listen to this drivel

So if British people in Britain go into a Chinese or other ethnic restaurant and spend a shedload of money on food , is it cultural appropriation
No

I'm sorry, but is it really that hard to understand?!

It's bullshit. That's it.

It's bullshit. That's it.
Ok
Much debate, well done.

Has anyone ever asked a Maori if they are offended by someone getting a Maori style tattoo?

Google and see.

There isnt a nation/country in the world that has been either the coloniser/invader or the colonised/invaded at some point in its history.

The 'dominant' culture chops and changes throughout a nation's evolvement and is affected by political trends and fashion at any one time.

It makes no logical sense to say one should or shouldnt use this or that fashion/food/habit because it is associated with x at one point.

I’m aware that different cultures dominate at different times. That says nothing about whether or not it’s reasonable for someone on the receiving end of that domination to feel aggrieved about their own traditions being borrowed, taken, plundered, used, abused, exploited, appreciated, appropriated, etc., etc.

Nor am I unaware that fashion and politics feed into the prevailing culture - that’s what this thread is about. But not everyone thinks that fashion is always neutral or benevolent. The past western mania for everything ‘Oriental’ has been critiqued for objectification of its subject. But perhaps those thinkers just needed a lesson in how the world works?

“It makes no logical sense” - as I say, very dismissive. Also, I don’t think anyone has argued on this thread that there ought to be a blanket prohibition on cultural exchange. That is a misrepresentation of the argument.

@GoodJanetBadJanet

I'm sorry, but is it really that hard to understand?!

Janet please will you answer my question from earlier:

So do you think it’s pointless for chefs to train in other countries since were they to come home and open a restaurant they shouldn’t cook any of the food they learned during their training abroad?

Janet never actually answers any questions. What sort of belief system is it that means the believer is unable to answer direct questions? A very weak and illogical one I'd venture to suggest.

Janet, if the answer to Minutewaltz's question is no then do you think it is CA if the chef works in that country? Ie someone from the UK trains as a sushi chef in Japan then works as a sushi chef in Japan?

Janet never actually answers any questions
Yes I do, I've been answering some on this very thread
Do I have to answer every single thing?!
Don't see why I should when it's obvious some aren't posting in good faith and just seem out for a fight, argumentative or sneering and jibing at anything they don't agree with.
If people don't want to try and understand, fair enough.

Can't I just be reading and trying to learn like others as well as posting?
Although I appreciate not everyone wants to learn.
I've never claimed to know the answer to everything either

@Georgeskitchen

So if British people in Britain go into a Chinese or other ethnic restaurant and spend a shedload of money on food , is it cultural appropriation? No its people of other ethnicities using their skills to make a living!! Has anyone ever asked a Maori if they are offended by someone getting a Maori style tattoo? Maybe all these people have better things to do than listen to this drivel

With regards to Maori tattoo style, yes, many Maori have been very forthright about how offensive they find someone getting a rip-off Maori tattoo.

These are items of great mana, particularly if bestowed upon someone who is not of Maori descent. To just 'order one up', is to disrespect the meaning and the spirituality of ta moko.

With people of ethnicities and cultures that have been subjugated, when you take even those things that have no monetary value, but so much value in their culture, once again, you are stealing. They get a tad fucking sick of it.

@GoodJanetBadJanet

Janet never actually answers any questions Yes I do, I've been answering some on this very thread Do I have to answer every single thing?! Don't see why I should when it's obvious some aren't posting in good faith and just seem out for a fight, argumentative or sneering and jibing at anything they don't agree with. If people don't want to try and understand, fair enough.

You are the one acting in bad faith Janet and you know it. You are banging on about some weird belief system that you've got from Tik Tok or wherever, and when you are asked a direct question you refuse to answer. Bad faith personified!