How can Baby P's mother be let out?!

[jowly]

Apparently approved for parole, but being challenged by the gov.

How can a civilised society even consider it.

"@Florenz, you're right about ridiculous lawyers' fees: legal aid fees paid to criminal lawyers are ludicrously low, below the national minimum wage."
I don't believe that for a second. Why would anyone take the time and spend the money to get a law degree and qualify as a lawyer to earn less than minimum wage?

There are too many examples of the rights of criminals taking precedence over the rights of law-abiders to name. The system is all wrong. Society should be set up for the benefit of law-abiders and criminals dealt with in the way that causes the least inconvenience to everyone else. At the moment it's the other way round. Activists bleat about the "human rights" of prisoners being breached, forgetting that the reason that they are in prison in the first place is because they had no regard to the human rights of their victims. It's disgraceful.

I'm not making excuses for her but she didn't exactly have a great start in life.

I don't think Peter stood a chance poor boy,

www.theguardian.com/society/2009/aug/11/tracey-connelly-baby-p-mother

Whether you like it or not, she's served her time. There's no point in sobbing/shaking - it achieves nothing. Why not channel any anger into pushing for change? Haringey Council's failure to act in this case is well documented. There are similar stories all over the country. Nothing can bring Baby P back but there is much that can be done to prevent this happening to other children.

@Florenz because they believe in our justice system. Innocent until proven guilty, right to a fair trial and all that. Family law solicitors get paid a pittance if they don’t do private work too.

I don't believe that for a second. Why would anyone take the time and spend the money to get a law degree and qualify as a lawyer to earn less than minimum wage?

And yet it is true. Read The Secret Barrister's books and educate yourself. That is why the number of lawyers doing criminal law has fallen drastically. A few carry on, probably in the hope of clinging on till they can command larger fees, but there is a real crisis.

There are too many examples of the rights of criminals taking precedence over the rights of law-abiders to name

Try naming some, @Florenz, after you've researched your facts properly, of course.

I would say that they have considered that with no children under her care, she is no longer a danger to society.

She effectively will be sterilised in that she will automatically have any further children removed at birth . I don't think she is a danger to other children I think it's probably quite a specific crime to kill your own baby I don't think she's a risk to children generally . She did have a horrific childhood and the cycles of abuse are well known and researched and hard to break. (See previous post mentioning reports of her other child attacking their sibling )
Still an actually vile case and cannot read the details as it's so awful . Poor little Peter.

She has already been released and recalled

That in itself is very questionable

And regarding that she will be recalled again if she breaks her license is not down to if she she breaks it it down to is she is caught breaking it. You can only monitor people to a degree some are more forthcoming some are more honest but you will never know what someone is up to all the time regardless of how much professional input you have around them (it’s severely lacking what is needed)

[quote sashh]I'm not making excuses for her but she didn't exactly have a great start in life.

I don't think Peter stood a chance poor boy,

www.theguardian.com/society/2009/aug/11/tracey-connelly-baby-p-mother[/quote]
That article made me feel physically sick. This quote in it from one of the professionals involved should focus our minds as a society:
"I see a great number of cases like Baby Peter or potential Baby Peter cases. There is this mythology that these cases are rare, they are not. And because of the scale of this the dynamics of the maternal abuse, neglect or collusion in a partner's abuses should not be overlooked. It needs to be examined and addressed."
This suggests that the bar for significant intervention is very low - we know that policy is to keep children within their families wherever possible, but why? Why not give them a chance at a better life? It’s heartbreaking.

@HRTQueen not to mention how often they 'lose' these people.

No one in their right mind could consider her 'no risk to the public'. She needs to stay inside for life. Her & the other two.

In 2013 she was sent back to prison for selling indecent pictures. This is not a changed woman! It is sickening and no justice for Peter. Also that Sharon shoesmith who worked for social services who was sacked was awarded a 6 figure sum! Everything about this case is sickening. They've all gotten away with it.

RobertaFirmino how can she have 'served her time' when the length of the sentence was not set? She's applied for bail every two years and was rejected. She was released on license eventually (can't remember what year) and re-imprisoned as she broke the terms of her release which included not being near young children.

In my opinion, people like her (and the two equal bastards who carried out the unbelievable evil) should never be let out. If she was truly repentant and a 'changed woman' she would not WANT to be let out as she would rightly feel she deserves to spend the rest of her life locked up.

She has a number of conditions added to her licence how many does she need

Why not test her in an open prison beforehand

Yes she was sending pictures to her male fans I am not sure if they knew of her true identity if they did that is very concerning but they may have not

And regarding that she will be recalled again if she breaks her license is not down to if she she breaks it it down to is she is caught breaking it. You can only monitor people to a degree some are more forthcoming some are more honest but you will never know what someone is up to all the time regardless of how much professional input you have around them (it’s severely lacking what is needed)

She is so high profile that a very close eye will be kept on her. Also she is clearly not the brightest of women, I doubt that she's clever enough to conceal her tracks - she certainly didn't succeed last time she stepped out of line when she was freed.

Oh please what do you think they learn in prison

She is very manipulative that won’t have changed

It doesn’t matter how much someone is monitored you can’t monitor them 24 hours a day and its also reliant on enough professionals in her team and them being pro active and professional, those around her family/friends engagement with professionals (very often it’s hostile) and how honest she is

@HRTQueen

She has a number of conditions added to her licence how many does she need

Why not test her in an open prison beforehand

Yes she was sending pictures to her male fans I am not sure if they knew of her true identity if they did that is very concerning but they may have not

Those men should be tracked down and arrested.

She effectively will be sterilised in that she will automatically have any further children removed at birth. so that’s people’s justification? She will have children removed at birth? And those children will grow up in the care system, in the knowledge of who they are and why they’re there. A care system which is fundamentally flawed and where they have limited opportunities.

I’m sick of people saying that she shouldn’t be sterilised, that it’s ok because all future children will be removed. Thing is there shouldn’t be future children. It’s not fair to punish future children for the sins of their mother just because the do-gooders out there think that her human rights shouldn’t be violated.

@Parsley1234

The child that was raped was her daughter she walked in on the child being raped by one of the brothers

I didn't know this. What did she do? Just let it happen??

How the fuck has she not got a whole life sentence?? All 3 of them should have.

@Rubyupbeat

There are certain cases that scream out sterilization!

Exactly this! I can't believe that she's let out to be free again and allowed to have another child. Once you do that to a poor child you should be forcibly sterilised and put on a child sex offender register for life, not to work, live with, house, or anything to do with children.

@magicofthefae I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unfortunately forced sterilisation is a human rights violation not that I believe her to be human in any way.

Oh please what do you think they learn in prison

Prison can't magically improve people's intelligence. She wasn't bright enough to evade supervision last time, why would it be different this time?

@AlternativePerspective

She effectively will be sterilised in that she will automatically have any further children removed at birth. so that’s people’s justification? She will have children removed at birth? And those children will grow up in the care system, in the knowledge of who they are and why they’re there. A care system which is fundamentally flawed and where they have limited opportunities.

I’m sick of people saying that she shouldn’t be sterilised, that it’s ok because all future children will be removed. Thing is there shouldn’t be future children. It’s not fair to punish future children for the sins of their mother just because the do-gooders out there think that her human rights shouldn’t be violated.

I disagree with this post on so many levels. Forced sterilization is not the way to go, for a society that calls itself civilized.

Pragmatically speaking though, the only ways to ensure that a convicted female child killer / abuser can't have any more children is to sterilise them or keep them in prison (actually the latter doesn't guarantee it I realise, especially not given the current trend for putting male sex offenders in the female estate). Is e.g. having the contraceptive implant ever stipulated in these cases? I am guessing not, because of bodily autonomy.

We won't solve people murdering their children through the policing / justice systems though. This is a societal issue. Utterly broken people, generational damage and abuse, a background of revolving door relationships, each one sealed with a new baby before moving on, low IQs, low educational attainment, whole swathes of people who live outside the society most of us know .......you name it. Every case recently and over the last few years has involved these factors. And I don't know what the answer is. I think of myself as generally left wing but it's uncomfortable looking at this stuff because really it's the collapse of traditional family structures and the accepting of any casual series of hook ups as a valid life choice and way to raise children behind this. But you can't say that as everyone who's divorced or happily living in a successful blended family etc feels attacked. But we're failing these children leaving them to fester in squalor and then wringing our hands when the worst happens.

@EmpressCixi

That was my initial reaction too, but then I looked at the dates. She was sentenced to minimum of 5 years but has served 10yrs (she was released in 2013 but violated parole and was back in in 2015). So I’m not as bothered. She did write that she cries every day about Baby P and can’t get past her failure to be a mother.

They do know that Baby P died while she was asleep in bed. It was her, her boyfriend and his brother that all abused baby P. So they don’t know who did the fatal blow or beating.

She was known to social services since she was a child so had been brought up in an abusive and chaotic home. Not executing her, but it’s well studied that abused children are at high risk when they grow up to be abusers to their children. .

but you are exscusing her