Rant about things being online only!

[Noseylittlemoo]

My Uncle is almost 92 . He lives alone , independently without help even tho he is almost blind. He doesn't have or use a computer.
He loves gardening and as such signs up for his local council garden waste collections. Previously he has been able to phone a number at the council, giving his card details over the phone to pay for the service. However now they have gone online only so he phoned me to help.
I had to create an account - which obviously he will never use , putting in my email address for contact information. I asked him for his card details but then a one time pass code was needed and he is not familiar with this. So I had to change the mobile number on the account from his to mine and put in my own card details and he will give me the money. The whole process took about an hour when he could have called them and had it processed in 5 minutes.
It also angered me that he is eligible for a 25% reduction as he is over 65. But in order to get the reduced price he was supposed to upload proof of his age and obviously I don't have any of his ID or documentation. He is comfortably off and was happy to pay the full price because he was just stressed about getting it sorted.

Surely the council could look on his previous history to find his age or cross reference with other information held like the electoral register.
It just annoyed me that it took up both of our time and stress for something he could have done independently a lot quicker. There must be others in this situation too.
Rant over!

I have little sympathy for elderly people who are unable/unwilling to use the internet unless it’s due to a disability. An 85 year old now would have been 61 in 1998 hardly old or unable to learn a new skill.

Totally agree OP. It isn’t just old people either! I spent 20 minutes today creating an account and handing out lots of personal info and verifying my address and email etc etc when I just want someone to collect my grass clippings, it used to be a 3 min phone call. So annoyed.

The councils have no reapect for people’s time. If it saves the council 3 minutes but costs all the taxpayers 20 min each, that’s a win in their view. 😡

@MyDcAreMarvel

I have little sympathy for elderly people who are unable/unwilling to use the internet unless it’s due to a disability. An 85 year old now would have been 61 in 1998 hardly old or unable to learn a new skill.

What an ignorant message. Clearly you’ve never tried to teach an OAP how to use a computer. I have, and it was near impossible, they couldn’t even control the mouse. In the end all that I achieved was they could play computer scrabble.

Plus - why? Telephones work quite well, why should we all be forced to do everything online? It makes the country incredibly vulnerable to hackers and state-sponsored cyber-attacks, which will be a huge part of the next war.

I feel sorry for your family and colleagues, you have zero empathy.

@Clymene

This is a huge issue. The assumption that everyone has access to a smartphone has meant a lot of older people haven't been able to access primary healthcare over the last few years too.

Right?! Plus people shouldn’t have to spend the £££ on a smartphone to access their free healthcare.

@Thewindwhispers Clearly you’ve never tried to teach an OAP how to use a computer. I have, and it was near impossible, they couldn’t even control the mouse. In the end all that I achieved was they could play computer scrabble.
I have but that’s irrelevant did you read my post. The internet has been mainstream since circa 1998 before they were elderly. They have had years of choosing not to learn.

@MyDcAreMarvel

I have little sympathy for elderly people who are unable/unwilling to use the internet unless it’s due to a disability. An 85 year old now would have been 61 in 1998 hardly old or unable to learn a new skill.

As many posters have pointed out, people who have learned have various cognitive issues that come with age. Apps and tech talk can be baffling at any age. At a later age, it becomes harder to process all that info.

So even if you had the knowledge, the ability doesn't necessarily stay the same.

Nor does the clarity of sight, hearing, dexterity or memory. And you are not meant to write down passwords, which often have complications attached to them.

Voice recognition still operates like this

@Thewindwhispers I feel sorry for your family and colleagues, you have zero empathy. don’t trouble yourself I have plenty of empathy. However spending years not bothering to learn a new skill when perfectly capable does not merit sympathy.

@EmmaH2022 I clearly stated the difference between being unable due to disability ie all the things you listed, and being unable because you chose not to bother.

@thewindwhispers I was just about to say similar!
My Uncle was a plumber for 50 years- a very manual practical job. He never had any reason to use a computer at work.
When he retired he kept active with walking groups, bowls , gardening , reading - no need to use a computer. He's had a mobile (non smart phone ) for about 15 years and it has finally broken. The struggles we are having trying to get him acquainted with his new simple smart phone when he is 92 and nearly blind.
How was he to know 25 years ago that he should learn computers so he could organise a bloody garden bin collection?!

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@Thewindwhispers* I feel sorry for your family and colleagues, you have zero empathy.* don’t trouble yourself I have plenty of empathy. However spending years not bothering to learn a new skill when perfectly capable does not merit sympathy.[/quote]
Any sympathy for this who did learn but can't cope any more....no, I can guess the answer to that.

*those

@EmmaH2022 Any sympathy for this who did learn but can't cope any more....no, I can guess the answer to that. well the answer is obviously yes!

[quote Noseylittlemoo]@thewindwhispers I was just about to say similar!
My Uncle was a plumber for 50 years- a very manual practical job. He never had any reason to use a computer at work.
When he retired he kept active with walking groups, bowls , gardening , reading - no need to use a computer. He's had a mobile (non smart phone ) for about 15 years and it has finally broken. The struggles we are having trying to get him acquainted with his new simple smart phone when he is 92 and nearly blind.
How was he to know 25 years ago that he should learn computers so he could organise a bloody garden bin collection?![/quote]
Absolutely! And he did an actual useful important job too. We need plumbers. We don't need more effing apps.

The internet was not mainstream in 1998! Plenty of people didn't have it then. It was still dial up and slow.

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]@EmmaH2022 I clearly stated the difference between being unable due to disability ie all the things you listed, and being unable because you chose not to bother.[/quote]
But all the things I described are not considered a disability. Mum is regularly told, at the bank, that she should do online banking.

I agree, the internet was in use in 1998 but being forced to use it is a recent thing. If you don't want to use it, and you're not a worrier like me, you could never have imagined the horrible tech we have now. Or that your only option to renew your bus pass would be online.

I finished Uni in 2000. Only 2 of my friends had mobile phones. I wrote a lot of my essays by hand and typed on wordprocessor . Most research was still books /films and I wasn't backward this was normal for a lot of students . So I agree 1998 was not when the Internet became the way of life!

Mydcaremarvel - my DDad retired just as computers were being brought in at his work. We never had computer classes at school, so didn't need access to a computer at home. The change to people needing to have access to computers and the internet to do the most basic tasks happened incredibly quickly - really over the course of twenty years.

DDad, an intelligent man, did sign up for computer classes at local FE college but the classes were too big to give anyone the attention needed to become competent.

As pp have pointed out, this stuff is moving so fast that those of us who are reasonably competent dealing with life via the internet will probably struggle in years to come. Old age comes to most of us, and until it creeps up on us we don't know how we'll cope with the physical and cognitive challenges it brings.

I am sure if more people opt out of online banking more banks would have to open to do business in person.

I am really digging my heels in and refuse to do online banking.

Online banking useless if I have cash to put into an account. I still need to go in person into a branch 🤷

It's just so unnecessarily shifted online. Take railcards. You can buy a one-year railcard at the ticket office, but a three-year railcard can only be ordered online. Where's the logic? If you can generate a railcard with a validity of one year, you can generate a railcard with a validity of three years. It's just unnecessary faff and wait until it comes in the mail.

All of the things that are being done physically, not in online space, but are increasingly reliant on you being able to access online while there. You're at the bus stop, but instead of a printed schedule, the paper only directs you to download an app. Same problem with places refusing to take cash.

My mum is 67 - so not really old. She is claiming state pension only (no private or savings) and lives rurally. She cannot afford more than a basic smartphone (and I pay monthly for that). Cannot afford to spend an upfront cost to replace it either. Does not have the Internet in the house, as cannot afford monthly payments. I can't afford to sub her all of these things. If she needs to do anything online, she needs to go up to her friends house and use her PC with her. She's never worked in an office or needed to be computer literate in her working life - doing mainly manual work like cleaning or bar work. Mainly lives month to month on her pension. Probably like a lot of people. Can't even go to the library to do things online, as they are being closed! And even if she could go the library, the rural bus service only goes once a week (and comes back same day after about 4 hours). Wonder how long that will keep running. And I expect a lot of people are similar - and that's not even asking if they are capable to do it. She just can't in practice. Where the choice may be eating or heating for many, extra basic internet / technology costs are way down the list of priorities.

And agree - how do you pay cash into an online only account? Many small clubs still get cash etc- pta collects cash in buckets for non uniform day, elderly parents do a club where they just pay cash each week to go, scouts collect cash in buckets at events, pay cash for xmas trees. And what about businesses that still take cash payments. All now becoming a ball ache to pay in anywhere when physical branches are being closed in so many towns!

It is moving so fast, my FIL is very technology-minded thru his working life BUT ask him to renew the dog licence (online only), make sure he gets it free as he is a pensioner, book flights for MIL and everything else. LFT tests, we set up so I would order for them when ordering for myself, grocery deliveries during the lockdowns etc etc.

I probably have more access to their bank cards than they do, statements etc as I print all statements for them and every in and out. I keep very detailed records,

I have an email address set up for each of them and it all feeds back into it, they couldnt log in even if i was sat with them, trust me we have tried,

The mobile number is given for things is my mobile number so I get messages to tell me about dentist appointments, prescription ready, all sorts but I dont mind as they are very good to me in other ways.

I love technology and use it avidly. However I agree with you OP. Many valid points are being made on this thread:

A lot of public services are going online only without an alternative. This saves public bodies money but can makes service more inaccessible to those vulnerable. Public bodies are in a catch 22, having been decimated by the government for over a decade.

I have had health problems that have left me temporarily unable to use screens and affected my grip. I am luckily fully recovered but at the time I would have been physically unable to use a laptop or smartphone. Do not sneer at cognitive or physical decline, it can happen to us all.

Technology is not infallible - if you offer all your services online only and you have server issues, update hiccups, hackers etc... nobody can access your services!

A lot of websites or apps are not well designed, or not designed with actual users in mind. It's easy to hit a dead end and then what? Hopefully you can speak to someone.

Laziness - I don't want a fucking app for everything I do in my life. It's not needed. Update your bloody website/ Facebook/ Instagram or maybe the sign on your front door. I went to a local leisure centre the other day and the staff at reception couldn't tell me when the pool opens. "It's all in the app". Staff are disempowered by this misuse of technology.

Not sure what the solution is! But I feel this overreliance on technology makes us vulnerable instead of more resilient.

In many ways it is a lack of confidence in how to avoid getting ripped off, particularly with MIL, the same person who took a cold call about a cruise and booked it on a Saturday night at about 10.30 pm over the phone and gave her credit card details, it was only about 15 minutes she realized that she didn't know where she was going or when or for how long but had paid nearly 3k which we promptly got the card stopped and the transaction was pending but nothing had gone thru at that point, it was after this i was asked to help and be an intermediary for them.