Rant about things being online only!

[Noseylittlemoo]

My Uncle is almost 92 . He lives alone , independently without help even tho he is almost blind. He doesn't have or use a computer.
He loves gardening and as such signs up for his local council garden waste collections. Previously he has been able to phone a number at the council, giving his card details over the phone to pay for the service. However now they have gone online only so he phoned me to help.
I had to create an account - which obviously he will never use , putting in my email address for contact information. I asked him for his card details but then a one time pass code was needed and he is not familiar with this. So I had to change the mobile number on the account from his to mine and put in my own card details and he will give me the money. The whole process took about an hour when he could have called them and had it processed in 5 minutes.
It also angered me that he is eligible for a 25% reduction as he is over 65. But in order to get the reduced price he was supposed to upload proof of his age and obviously I don't have any of his ID or documentation. He is comfortably off and was happy to pay the full price because he was just stressed about getting it sorted.

Surely the council could look on his previous history to find his age or cross reference with other information held like the electoral register.
It just annoyed me that it took up both of our time and stress for something he could have done independently a lot quicker. There must be others in this situation too.
Rant over!

@toastfiend when I helped with this issue last year the council website was different and there was no need to create an account. As you say there are often glitches. I ended up paying for him twice last year as it said the payment had been unsuccessful and then had to contact them for a refund!

[quote Noseylittlemoo]@toastfiend when I helped with this issue last year the council website was different and there was no need to create an account. As you say there are often glitches. I ended up paying for him twice last year as it said the payment had been unsuccessful and then had to contact them for a refund![/quote]
Oh yes, a lot of tech "works" very badly indeed.

Local councils do not want to provide garden waste services. They legally don't need to provide it like refuse and they don't make any money back on it like recycling. Which is why they charge for it.

The cynical side of me would say that if they make it as hard as physically possible for the majority of people who use the service (being a bit ageist here I'll admit) to access it, then no one will use it.

I find the same issue for the company I work for. It is a company which has both stores and an online platform. Many customers come into store because they want to see the product first/don't do online shopping / would prefer to speak to a human. We are now unable to process an order for someone in the store unless they provide an email address - even if they are having the item delivered to the store and we call them when it arrives.
It seems crazy to exclude customers who would like to spend money with you!

Banks are really awful for doing this. Every time I go into the bank (which admittedly is not especially frequently because I do bank online) there are always massive queues of people. There are posters telling you how easy it is to do this that or the other online, and the staff there also are falling over themselves to let you know you can do it all online . When the fact that I've bothered to go to the bank suggests a) it's an issue I can't do online, or b) I'm unable to use the online services - rather than unawareness.

Doing everything online assumes

• Everyone has a device that is Internet connective
• they are able to use that device
• that they have sufficient data or wifi
• that the website is fully functional

Even some computer literate people do not want to make purchases or put their card details online.

This is what happens when your diversity and inclusion budget goes to Stonewall!

I see your rant and raise it... and why are all these online services so much MORE expensive? All our local car parks are now mostly via an app with additional fees for using the app at up to 60%!

I am ALL about online. I Love online. I prefer it in almost all cases. But online for online's sake without the back end technology or the actual benefit infuriates me.

Yes and fuck alone knows why they all think we’d like an app for each business - I ask you. My mum is goodish on the computer but cannot fathom downloading apps to save her life. Now the pub wants you to download one app, the car park another and the hospital another one. Thank god her local car park is still using change or she’d have had her car towed by now. Let alone as the OP says people who are blind and can’t use screenreaders etc.

Such a good point made earlier that this is making some people more “disabled” than they need to be. There should ALWAYS be a “people option” for essential services like councils and banks.

@BlingLoving Yes!
I have seen carparks where the app price is more as well. I was only talking about it recently that logically it should be cheaper as you will need less maintenence on the meter/machine and someone to empty it less often . Altho it should be identical pricing so as to be fair to all.

@EmmaH2022

I agree Mum is 83 and some of her lost independence is down to stuff like this.

This is an extremely good point.

My GP practice changed to online only repeat prescription requests a while ago. Which suits me fine, but as PP have said, not every older person has access to, or indeed, the knowledge to use a computer. Or anyone to do it for them. My mother, in her 80s, wouldn't have had a clue. What are these people meant to do?
And not exactly the same thing, but similar - l'm finding so many things have to be done via app these days.
For example - Lidl's loyalty scheme is via app only.
And yesterday we got a leaflet in the door that Asda are starting a new loyalty scheme, also app only.
A lot of older people will use these shops as their main supermarket, but won't have access to either mobile phones, or their phones are older and don't support apps.
I do have a smartphone, which is perfectly adequate for what l need, calls, texts, emails, etc, but l can't get apps on it. I can't afford to replace it, and l'm pretty sure a lot of (particularly) older people will be in the same boat, especially just now.

Agree. Strong agree.

My parents are pretty computer literate but they’re in their 80’s. They can place an online food shop but banks / supermarkets have introduced OTP’s - codes sent to mobiles for protection. My folks barely use a mobile, leave it downstairs (pc is upstairs), take a while to navigate to texts and wouldn’t really know what they were looking for. By the time they found it, it would have expired.

Anyone navigated their way round this? Can you register a preference to reject the need for a OTP?

(Meant to add - it causes them stress and anxiety and reduces their independence. Wonder if Age Concern have investigated?)

@YellowAndGreenToBeSeen
Actually Age UK is a good shout. My uncle has a weekly call from one of their local befriended. I wonder if they have any contacts with the council or ability to pressure for phone services to be resumed to support independence in older people?

I feel your frustration. As the youngest grandchild I have become the go to for online stuff...which seems to be everything these days. My parents, aunts and uncles aren't computer literate and my cousins are the 'we don't have time' sort so I seem to always get left doing these jobs. By word of mouth this has also lead to my families elderly neighbours dropping by to have me do an online application or order for them now too...like I am some wise woman of technology in the neighbourhood. Paying water bills, ordering septic tank emptying, large item waste removal order, online shopping, repeat presciptions, booking routine blood tests, booking vaccines, MOT, census, renewing licences, ordering passports etc. I have done them all.

It all seems to have moved online or the 'phone line/paper alternative' for OAPs is useless, overly complicated, slow or phone line is always busy.

Rant away, I will be right there beside you! Perfectly able bodied people who are having their independence curtailed because they aren't computer literate.

And before anyone starts about 'oh they should take a course.' That only works for certain people who have the inclination, desire or ability to learn. Secondly, my mother and one of my uncles did take a course (and i tried to teach them too) but even still they found navigating all the online forms and payments very stressful. To top it off, buying a laptop or decent sized tablet they could use and then paying for internet every month just to fill in forms or pay bills is extortionate.

I have one aunt who is pretty good about going to the public library to do online bills and appointments but even she isn't very fussed about it since its a bit of a journey. My other half jokes that our kitchen is a saturday morning surgery now since by unspoken agreement between 10am and 1pm on Saturday seems to be the time for them to come as a group when they need something done online. It's doubly funny because some of her family have started dropping by for 'tech support Saturday surgery' too.

It's all gotten a bit mental. I wish govt, councils and services would put equal effort into their alternatives like paper applications, phone lines etc as they do into setting up these online application sites.

@EssexGurl

In the bank today a lady was getting upset that she couldn’t have a face to face appointment for something - it could only be done via Zoom. She didnt have that. But all the response was - we are moving away from face to face. My Dad couldn’t even cope with remembering his pin before he died and went into the bank to get cash. They knew him and helped. Not sure that would happen now.

There's only one bank open in our town. (There used to be 7) And it only opens 9-12 two days a week. My mum, 86, used to go into her bank before it closed and they knew her name and were,aways so kind and helpful with her. Now she's completely lost. People say that once her generation have gone, everyone will be computer literate so no problem. But they don't take into account that people lose confidence and struggle more as they age so the older generation will always need more help. And honestly, sometimes I just want to go in and sit down with someone face to face. I tend to forget questions when I'm on the phone. This faceless future is quite scary.

Even if you are computer literate, it can be much easier to get paper statements than go through log ins and security faff.

I keep paper statements, so much easier.

The management company for my block of flats has a "portal". I think eventually they wanted people to check it when bills are due. Who benefits? The company that runs the portal. That's it. We need more companies to say "no" to this shit.

Let’s remember you can all buy a house if you don’t have luxuries like the internet

I'm only 33 and I hate a lot of it too!

Am averagely tech-literate for my age but agree it's very unfair for older people and wrong for the choice of face to face appointments / telephone calls to be taken away. I also hate self service tills and can imagine it would be horrible for an older person with poor eyesight/hearing/not used to tech.

I hate how GPs are now behaving- asking people to send pictures rather than actually seeing patients face to face. Didn't someone on here send in pics of her piles? Get to fuck would have been my response - cannot believe they deemed it appropriate to tell someone to do that.

And don't get me started on the hell of hybrid zoom meetings, with some people in the office and some at home, and hybrid breakout rooms 🤮

I'm very jealous that at least the elderly never had to deal with this fresh hell at work 😂

Sorry OP I ranted a lot on your thread!

I agree with every comment on this thread. Some very good points raised.

I've never used a self service till. On principle. I always go to a till with a person. I also rarely shop online. I don't want to have someone else picking out products for me at the supermarket either. I'd rather go and have a look and compare things, choose things on a whim. Fed up with everything being online.

I’m mid 60’s and fairly computer literate with a smart phone but the online stuff upload this that etc for a flight to the Far East has almost broken me! I had to get 12 year old grandson round in the end and he said it wasn’t that easy. I don’t know how my dad would have managed even though he would have been fit enough for the actual travelling into his early 80’s.

Before the pandemic there were 2 issues coming into public consciousness

• the loneliness of older people (the amount of people living alone and not getting to speak with another person, sometimes for days)

• the amount of tech and screen time young children were using and how it could impact or impair their social skills and make face to face communication more difficult.

Along came covid and the older people (and people living alone generally) became more isolated and tech became the answer for everything!!
I worry about my own teen/tween reliance on tech but hopefully it will at least equip them for a future of logins/usernames and passwords.

Yes, I agree too - the assumption that everyone has and is able to use the internet is bizarre.

My P can use the internet and have done for years to order things - one late 70s one early 70s however unlike my IL they haven't got up to date mobiles and have one very old very basic phone - they suddenly started to come a cropper as suddenly one compnay they order through regualrly needed an access code sent to their mobile and tehy couldn't do this bit.

My IL frequently panic - so any system like recnet NHS hospital site which isn't very basic and clear we often end up trying to help navigate round from over 200 miles away which is very hard.

None of them want to internet bank which their banks try and push at them. I don't mind internet banking but could still do with a branch open at weekends as sometime check app doesn't work and sometimes it's for too high an amount for the app.

Aretina There isn't an option to use a manned checkout where l live. We only have a very small Asda, there are two 'manned' tills but there's very rarely anyone sitting at them.
Besides the kiosk for lottery/cigs, all the tills are self scan. And card payment only.