Rant about things being online only!

[Noseylittlemoo]

My Uncle is almost 92 . He lives alone , independently without help even tho he is almost blind. He doesn't have or use a computer.
He loves gardening and as such signs up for his local council garden waste collections. Previously he has been able to phone a number at the council, giving his card details over the phone to pay for the service. However now they have gone online only so he phoned me to help.
I had to create an account - which obviously he will never use , putting in my email address for contact information. I asked him for his card details but then a one time pass code was needed and he is not familiar with this. So I had to change the mobile number on the account from his to mine and put in my own card details and he will give me the money. The whole process took about an hour when he could have called them and had it processed in 5 minutes.
It also angered me that he is eligible for a 25% reduction as he is over 65. But in order to get the reduced price he was supposed to upload proof of his age and obviously I don't have any of his ID or documentation. He is comfortably off and was happy to pay the full price because he was just stressed about getting it sorted.

Surely the council could look on his previous history to find his age or cross reference with other information held like the electoral register.
It just annoyed me that it took up both of our time and stress for something he could have done independently a lot quicker. There must be others in this situation too.
Rant over!

This isnt just a problem for this generation of older people. Technology is developing all the time. So those of us who think we have a good grasp now might find when we get into our 70s, that new things came out over the previous decade that we struggle to understand. It's going to be an ongoing problem.

We do all life admin for DDad (nineties). He retired the year his company introduced computers. It infantilises older/less able people, not being able to deal with this stuff themselves. It also leaves them open to fraud by unscrupulous people, including family members.

I've also just had the experience of changing address after a house move and the online experience has been horrendous - one bank wouldn't/couldn't do change of address online, so I was on the phone to them for 72 minutes, as opposed to popping into the local building society and having my address updated in a couple of minutes. I was also fooled by one of these online companies whose site looked exactly like TV licensing and was charged £16.50 for address change (yup, silly me).
Insurance companies charge for changing policy details even though it's done online, and as pp have mentioned, parking charges done via app are more expensive.

When I moved house (i'm in my 30s) an error meant I was without internet for a month.
I didn't miss it at all and would be tempted to give it up entirely but it was so frustrating as every little thing has been moved online now!
Everyone expects you to have a smartphone.

I'm reasonably tech savvy and help my elderly relatives out but when i'm old I don't have much confidence that i'll find things an easier than they do!

@moonbedazzled

This isnt just a problem for this generation of older people. Technology is developing all the time. So those of us who think we have a good grasp now might find when we get into our 70s, that new things came out over the previous decade that we struggle to understand. It's going to be an ongoing problem.

So true, I get cross whenever the metaverse is mentioned.

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

Not quite the same but similar. Went to a car park at Xmas time. All the payment machines were out of use so had to pay via mobile which involved downloading an app etc. It was a fiddly process for me - getting codes and back and forth from messages to app then adding payment card etc but there was an elderly man who genuinely had no idea how to even begin. My daughter (21) ended up doing most of it for him but it made me wonder how many other older people may have given up and ended up with parking fines that day.

Anyone navigated their way round this? Can you register a preference to reject the need for a OTP?

A good security system will allow for generation of a series of codes that can be used in the event you can't get a signal or lose your phone.

The problem with that is you need an organisation that has a clue - so that's 75% eliminated at a stroke.

How about companies that managed to reinvent the telephone, and require you to wait for them on their "live" chat ? Which is only available when you are at work anyway.

I struggled with this aspect of testing during the height of the pandemic. My friend doesn't have Internet or a smartphone. Using screens triggers some kind of vestibular migraine for her, it is awful. In order to book a covid test she had to call a number, when they asked for an email address which she doesn't have. So they said they'd send her a one time pin, but her sort of mobile phone couldn't cope with that at the same time as being on a call. I had to try to do it for her, including all kinds of personal information which really she shouldn't have had to tell anyone else than the officials. But there WAS NO alternative, and the call centre just said, 'Oh you aren't the only one, we have this problem a lot.' And this was in order to protect the elderly and vulnerable who are presumably the LEAST likely to manage all this online stuff alone. Shockingly poor, I thought.

At 75, I’m reasonably tech-savvy, using an iPad or desktop, but I don’t want or need a smartphone (I have a basic phone for emergencies).

I’m particularly annoyed that some loyalty cards are switching to apps, only available on smartphones, such as M&S. so much so, that I emailed their CEO to complain that it was discriminatory to their older buyers ( their core customers!) and ageist into the bargain. I did get a polite reply, but it didn’t answer my fears.

I noticed that Waitrose will be doing a U-turn on using an app for their loyalty card after being inundated with complaints from their older customers, hopefully M&S will take note, but I won’t hold my breath!

Far too many of the older generation are going to be excluded from doing day-to-day finances and other activities if technology takes over, it’s really not good enough.

My parents took their masks and my dad drove the 30miles to the zCounty Libraryy to renew their garden waste pass at the council desk there.
Turns out itno longer exists.
Like others, I had to masquerade as Dad online and pay myself to sort out something he was happy to do himself.

Strongly agree OP, I think this is so discriminatory and actually makes older people less independent. While they are still perfectly capable and willing to be independent we should be allowing them to be so not taking everything away and making them reliant on others. How is it acceptable for a whole section of society to be so actively excluded from the functions of daily activities.

Absolutely agree with everything people have said here. I'm in my late 60s and fortunately used computers extensively for the last 20 years of my working life, but technology is definitely leaving me behind now, so although I can generally do everything I need to online, I can see the day coming when I'll be stumped. It very much disadvantages older, poorer and disabled people as well as those who have never had to use tech at work.

@EvilPea

Let’s remember you can all buy a house if you don’t have luxuries like the internet

Councillors may want your vote in May, OP. Make sure they are aware of what you and your uncle have experienced.

Seems to me if there is not an option to phone or go to the council offices to set up a service, it fails the Equalilty Act 2010 duties.

Oh I hear you.
My mum was able to do most of it until a year or so again. I have to do it all now. But as she says "what about those who don't have anyone to help"

I'm mid 30s and very reluctantly use apps or internet for important stuff as I just dont get it.
Oh and everything needing a fucking app now is driving me crazy. Most of my phones memory is taken up by apps I dont want but have to have to be able to actually do anything! Its crazy! I dont want all these apps!

It's so unfair. Not everyone has someone who they can turn to do it for them. And due to the nature of it, as in financial, it's not something you can ask any random passing person or acquaintance to help you with. It makes me furious the way older people are sidelined in the tech age.

I can, but hate, internet shopping except for the odd thing I can't get locally. I have a mobile phone but it is only for use as an emergency in the car and that is where it stays. (old one with a £5 Asda card in it). What annoys me is
when I shop and they ask for my mobile number.
Me - sorry don't have one.
Them - I asked for your mobile number
Me - did you not hear, I don't have one.
Then they look at me like I have got 2 heads.
I use an M and S credit card but refuse an online statement and they and Nationwide have to send a paper one or I will close my account.
I have lost my free John Lewis coffee and cake because I don't have the app and I only gave in after lots of telephone calls because I wanted my bus pass.

@Fairyliz

But isn’t this a natural consequence of everyone wanting to work from home which is seen as a great thing by most of MN? My dad used to be able to go into the council office to renew his bus pass, now it’s all online. The local bank is shut ‘to protect our customers from covid . Nothing at all to do with saving money.

not necessarily. Contact centres can still be WFH. Phones are easy, one device, oen number. The plethora of things to do 'online'. Also I work in tech and find the 'app for everything' annoying! My phone has ,imited space and I don't need to download, create a login etc for sth I'll use only once.

This sounds a bit selfish but it also puts a burden on the next generation who will likely be working, possibly have kids and other responsibilities and their own online shit to sort out....having to sort out stuff that their relatives actually could or want to do for themselves if the right provision was made!! It's frustrating for everyone.

I'm guessing OP could have had 100 other things she could/would have been doing than fiddling about creating a login and navigating a council website for an hour!

I am reasonable at using tech but we went on holiday a year or so ago and wanted to use a local (council run) leisure centre facility. I called up to book and was told I had to become a member. So then I had to go online, wait for them to send me a membership number by email ... then confirm it THEN they had to send me a pin number....all to use a sports facility for about an hour!! Now I keep getting emails from the bloody leisure centre (that I'm now a member of) that I'm never likely to visit again!

I agree with everything said here. The problem is that many of us end up helping our elderly relatives with the tech issues so there is no need for the companies/organisations to change. I don't know what the answer is.

Update!
I emailed the council involved. (As I mentioned previously last year I ended up paying twice so I had the email address I needed). I told them it was discriminatory against people without access to the Internet and taking independence away from people (as well as creating more work for others-me!). I said I wanted to be refunded the discount that he was entitled to. Someone phoned me back within 2h and said she would organise the refund . She said she would feed back my concerns and had been inundated with similar stories. It seems like it creates alot more admin for both the council staff and the applicant so I'm not sure who is benefitting!

Apologies if this has already been posted but this was GENIUS:

www.ft.com/content/cdf03d65-5045-4c3a-8384-cae176cda2fb

Retired Spanish Dr takes on the banks with "I'm old, not an idiot" in protest at everything being an app, and he got their attention!

Also I'm mid 40s, very tech savvy, but one of my credit cards is app only, right now my screen on my phone (which houses said app) is broken, so my touch screen is haywire. I cannot complete a single action right now because there is no option anymore to use my laptop to access my account!
Rant over. Thanks!

LegMeChicken "Also I work in tech and find the 'app for everything' annoying!
My phone has ,imited space and I don't need to download, create a login etc for sth I'll use only once."

It's interesting to me that you hate it too. I've got three contacts working in tech and they find my limited tech use prehistoric.

Do you think it will calm down? Like the poster who had to download an app to go somewhere for an hour...surely that's got to be self limiting?

@YellowAndGreenToBeSeen

Agree. Strong agree.

My parents are pretty computer literate but they’re in their 80’s. They can place an online food shop but banks / supermarkets have introduced OTP’s - codes sent to mobiles for protection. My folks barely use a mobile, leave it downstairs (pc is upstairs), take a while to navigate to texts and wouldn’t really know what they were looking for. By the time they found it, it would have expired.

Anyone navigated their way round this? Can you register a preference to reject the need for a OTP?

This doesn't solve the wider problem, but IME you can generally set up the 2 factor authentication such that a message is sent to your landline (it's read out to you & you then type it in). My dad's bank advertised only the mobile option, but a bit of digging gave the landline solution.

I do agree that alternatives are needed for public services. However, I would balance it out by saying that there are massive plus points from the tech options available for older people & therefore for all of us it's well worth staying as up to date as possible as you age & engaging with tech if you can.

My dad is 88 and registered partially sighted, plus has used hearing aids since his 40s, and the computer / other tech stuff is an absolute lifeline to him. He can stream radio / podcasts to his hearing aids, can control them via a smartphone app (despite having severe arthritis - he has it set up with a lot of voice control), orders online because he can't find items in shops etc.

I sort of agree but age per se should not be a barrier - my MIL is 83 and perfectly computer literate, my Mum is 76 and also manages and she doesn't even live in the UK - she does internet banking, Facebook, does zooms, uses a mobile, etc. it is possible to learn.