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Ukraine Invasion: Part 17

998 replies

MagicFox · 27/03/2022 07:23

A new place for us to convene, thread 17.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
MMBaranova · 28/03/2022 17:49

Remember this incident happened on UKRAINIAN soil. So how did the poison get there and who administered it? You can't just saunter into Ukraine atm.

The 3rd March talks took place in Belarus. Where has them being in Ukraine come from?

When RedToothBrush is pasting about the Gomel peace talks, that's it. Gomel is in Belarus.

Image from CNN.

Gomel is near the border of both Ukraine and Russia, north of Kyiv.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 17
DuncinToffee · 28/03/2022 17:53

Shaun Walker @shaunwalker7

A source with direct knowledge has just confirmed to me the WSJ/Bellingcat reports that Abramovich suffered symptoms of poisoning. "Roman lost his sight for several hours" and was treated in Turkey, the source said.

Ijsbear · 28/03/2022 18:01

Some saw asphalt and street lights for the fist time.

What .. the .. actual ... hell?!

Ok, is this actually reliable or is it propaganda? Because that is unbelievable.

If nothing else they'd have gone through built - up Russia and perhaps Belorus on the way to Ukraine.

PaperTyger · 28/03/2022 18:02

Very strange.

Maybe the chocolate wasn't supposed to be " shared".

PaperTyger · 28/03/2022 18:03

When did Putin do his rant about people living outside Russia enjoying oysters?

EsmaCannonball · 28/03/2022 18:18

Maybe the Russians wanted everyone to think those nasty Ukrainians and their weapons labs had poisoned Roman Abramovich and then he went and spoiled their plans by saying, 'Does anyone want the coffee Revels?'

DuncinToffee · 28/03/2022 18:19

@PaperTyger

When did Putin do his rant about people living outside Russia enjoying oysters?
Nothing to do with the possible poisoning but I saw this tweet earlier Smile

Can’t quite imagine how, but one fancy Kyiv supermarket is restocked with oysters and lobsters
twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1508438581039312896?t=qlvirnUTbXg62fab5nWedA&s=19

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 18:22

@Ijsbear

Some saw asphalt and street lights for the fist time.

What .. the .. actual ... hell?!

Ok, is this actually reliable or is it propaganda? Because that is unbelievable.

If nothing else they'd have gone through built - up Russia and perhaps Belorus on the way to Ukraine.

Real. There were pictures to illustrate the point. Its very believable if you are talking about rural poor boys.
RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 18:23

@PaperTyger

When did Putin do his rant about people living outside Russia enjoying oysters?
Wasn't it at the rally or in the day or two before (so around 15th to 18th)?
DuncinToffee · 28/03/2022 18:28

Pretty amazing footage of young conscripts from the Donetsk "People's Republic" complaining that they have been sent to Ukraine's Sumy region as cannon fodder
twitter.com/niktwick/status/1508490884794441728?t=YGXcjx5mNT1NucyVXTHv-w&s=19

notimagain · 28/03/2022 18:37

On the subject of footage and videos..the following video is by a former US tank commander (despite the accent) and current historian..

Whilst it is now about a week old and is definitely techie in nature I think does a good job of pointing out what to be careful of when watching some of the images we are being exposed to:

MagicFox · 28/03/2022 18:40

According to Bellingcat, Putin, Shoigu et al are holed up in a bunker in the Urals. So gross, far away from all the people they're sending into war

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 18:45

@MagicFox

According to Bellingcat, Putin, Shoigu et al are holed up in a bunker in the Urals. So gross, far away from all the people they're sending into war
Doesn't remotely surprise me.

Think about how fun that is (not).

Even if its luxurious and amazing, not seeing daylight? Fuck that.

Igotjelly · 28/03/2022 18:52

What on earth do they mean by ‘environmental factor’ I wonder.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 17
RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 18:54

@Igotjelly

What on earth do they mean by ‘environmental factor’ I wonder.
What are the symptoms of being near to a leaky Chernobyl after eating chocolate???

(Note the symptoms that workers who got cycled out reported if my memory serves - will go look up)

PerkingFaintly · 28/03/2022 18:54

Mm, the level of Russian incompetence with poisonings is pretty high though.

It took three attempts to fatally poison Litvinenko, and the men tasked to do it had no idea that the poison would make them and everything they touched radioactive. They poured a fair bit of the polonium down hotel sinks, and poisoner Lugovoi actually got his own nephew to shake Litvinenko's hand. Let's just say the Kremlin didn't employ anyone too far up the food chain for the mission, and didn't tell them too much.

The blokes who carried out the Salisbury poisonings didn't come across as the sharpest knives in the drawer either.

Alexander Litvinenko: the man who solved his own murder
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/19/alexander-litvinenko-the-man-who-solved-his-own-murder

Alexander Litvinenko and the most radioactive towel in history
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/06/alexander-litvinenko-and-the-most-radioactive-towel-in-history

PerkingFaintly · 28/03/2022 19:00

Sorry that wasn't clear.

I'm making the point that Russian poisonings often don't go as planned, so one can't infer that an attack wasn't meant to kill. Sometimes they intend to, but are just too incompetent.

EezyOozy · 28/03/2022 19:03

.

blueshoes · 28/03/2022 19:07

[quote notimagain]On the subject of footage and videos..the following video is by a former US tank commander (despite the accent) and current historian..

Whilst it is now about a week old and is definitely techie in nature I think does a good job of pointing out what to be careful of when watching some of the images we are being exposed to:

[/quote] Somewhat depressing to watch but it makes sense.
RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 19:19

Strangely enough Reuters have JUST put this out:

Idrees Ali @idreesali114
March 28 (Reuters) - Russian soldiers who seized the site of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster drove their armoured vehicles without radiation protection through a highly toxic zone called the "Red Forest", kicking up clouds of radioactive dust, workers at the site said.

The two sources said soldiers in the convoy did not use any anti-radiation gear. The second Chernobyl employee said that was "suicidal" for the soldiers because the radioactive dust they inhaled was likely to cause internal radiation in their bodies.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/unprotected-russian-soldiers-disturbed-radioactive-dust-chernobyls-red-forest-2022-03-28/

There were Ukrainian reports at the end of last week that Russians were told to dig in trenches in the same area the other day (In Ukrainian - see translation below:)
kiev.segodnya.ua/kiev/kother/obluchayut-sami-sebya-okkupanty-royut-okopy-v-ryzhem-lesu-vozle-chaes-1610709.html
They irradiate themselves: the occupiers are digging trenches in the Red Forest near the Chernobyl nuclear power plant

^The Russian military is digging trenches in the occupied territories near the Chernobyl nuclear power plant. Soldiers also complain that they receive radiation, but the command still throws them into battle.
The occupiers are harming themselves^

In the Red Forest near the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, the Russian military is digging trenches. This was announced by the chairman of the public council of the State Agency of Ukraine for Management of the Exclusion Zone Alexander Syurota.

"Good people say that fuckers dug trenches not anywhere, but in the most strategic place of the Chernobyl zone - in the" Red Forest ". I want to wish them with all my heart - dig deeper, sit longer!", - said in a statement.

Already received a dose of radiation

The occupiers complain that they are being irradiated at the captured Chernobyl nuclear power plant, but the command still throws them into battle. One of the conversations of the Russian invader with his relative was intercepted by the SBU.

"Guess we've been there (near Chernobyl, ed.) For 2 weeks, and we've all been thrown into battle by fucking fuckers. I hate our state, everyone," says the military man.

There's also a lot of worry about fires in the area atm too.

Zarina Zabrisky @ZarinaZabrisky 19hrs ago
#Chornobyl: All maps show one small fire only. Interesting radiation situation. The last measurements taken on Feb 25th show very high radiation; no data for a month; high measurement in Belarus nearby.

Igotjelly · 28/03/2022 19:25

.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 17
RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 19:26

Olga Ivshina @oivshina (BBC World Service)
What do we definitely know about #Russian military casualties in #Ukraine? BBC in-depth research of verified military losses found some interesting tendencies

Roughly 20% of all verified losses are officers. The research was based on analysis of official statements by Russian governors, local media reports, posts by official accounts of universities, schools etc.

20% is a huge number. But it doesn't mandatory mean that every 5th Russian servicemen killed on a battlefield is an officer. May be officers are removed from the battlefield more quickly or may be they are given more prominent place in local news announcements

The majority of the confirmed losses are paratroopers of different ranks (from private up to colonel). And this can be explained by the fact that paratroopers are often used by Russia as a main storming force. They are better trained and equipped compared to most other units

Confirmed losses list also includes over 10 GRU spetsnaz fighters (ie most likely special operators rather than intelligence officers)and some casualties from the elite special forces units of Rosgvardia, including at least 1 confirmed death from "Vityaz"(Витязь)-top level group

"Vityaz" is considered one of the strongest special units in Russia-they go through constant arduous training, the best servicemen pass one of the world’s most difficult test to earn the right to wear "crimson beret" (краповый берет)- symbol of their exceptional skills and spirit

There is at least one confirmed death of Russian Crimson beret in Ukraine - it's Ruslan Galyamov from Tatarstan region.

Russian have confirmed deaths of over 10 military pilots, navigators and flight mechanics.These are unique specialists. Training of 1 fighter pilot takes 7-8 years and costs over 3 million $. So called sniper-pilots need 10-12 years to train and cost over 7mln $

Now on geographical spread of the losses in Russia. Here is a map published by BBC a week ago. It shows how many losses were reported in each region (the darker colour is - the more losses have been reported). Figures have changed since then but the tendency remains the same.

The majority of losses are reported by Dagestan and South Ossetia regions. Many reports come from Buryatia (region in Siberia).But it doesn't mean that in reality most of the servicemen killed are ethnically non-Russians or muslims. There has been a lot of speculation about that

We need to remember that attitude to military casualties is very different in different cultures and regions. We get reports that officials in Dagestan put huge effort in getting back bodies of local servicemen. They also seem to official report each death and visit funerals

It's not the same in other regions of Russia. E.g. last week 15 of Russia’s 85 regions hadn't published any info about their local servicemen being killed in Ukraine. And in 1 of these regions- Kemerovo – BBC Russian managed to establish identities and burial places of 7 soldiers

A few hours after the BBC investigation was published the Kemerovo authorities announced that 13 servicemen were buried in Kemerovo region since the start of the war – 11 of them were born in the region and 2 were serving and living there.

There is evidence of growing pressure on local journalists in Russia who report on the military losses – some of the earlier publications about soldiers killed in action were deleted. Sometimes it happens in a day or two, sometimes within an hour.

1 Siberian journalist told BBC: "All local media outlets were instructed by regional government not to publish any data on losses in Ukraine.There are cases when local officials put pressure on the relatives of the victims, ordering them to stay silent...

...They say, now there is no need to make a fuss, we will find a way to commemorate your boys later." So the amount of losses reported by each region mainly depends on the position that local authorities take. Dagestan has officially reported over 50 casualties. Chechnya - only 2

All official reports underline that #Russian soldiers killed in #Ukraine are professional servicemen (ie signed a contract to serve). But there is at least 1 guy, whose relatives claim he was a conscript.This is Maxim Khanygin from a village in Saratov region.

Local media wrote that a farewell ceremony for Maxim was held on March 5.There are photos of soldiers carrying a wreath, a portrait of Khanygin and the "Order of Courage" he got for fighting in Ukraine. But the photos don't show either a grave or a coffin.

Khanygin's grandmother claims that the family was informed on February 25, but she does not know when they will get the the body. There was a ceremony, but not funerals. She insists her grandson was a conscript.

Mother of Pavel Pozanen(also killed in Ukraine) told local newspapr that her son's signature to become a contract soldier was received illegally just before he was deployed."Everything is very complicated," she said not specifying details."They signed him to a contract illegally"

Relatives of Russian servicemen killed in Ukraine rarely publicly express their attitude to what is called a "special operation in Ukraine". Mother of POW Valery Zaluzhny told the BBC that she "does not know why all this is necessary at all". But there are opposite opinions.

Gulnara Valieva -mother of special ops soldier Yevgeny Dudin (killed in Ukraine)-told BBC that Russia should "bomb Ukraine more".She believes that Russia conducts only high precision strikes on Ukrainian military targets. This message is constantly broadcasted by Russian stateTV

She also believes that Russia conducted a preemptive strike to avoid an attack from Ukraine which was imminent. Next words will be her direct quote which shocked me

"I hate everyone already. They say there are civilians there and our boys can't shoot at them.But they fired at my son from Kiev.Why can they shoot, and our boys can't? So I tell now - do bomb civilians, may be then more of our boys will return alive" - Gulnara told BBC.

Some interactive graphs can be found in this article. The figures have changed already, but the tendencies seem to stay the same

www.bbc.com/russian/features-60821398
Article in Russian

Ukraine Invasion: Part 17
NewYearEveryYear · 28/03/2022 19:29

If he survives this war, Roman Abramovich will be the next leader of Russia... I bet £100 my own money on it.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 19:57

@Ijsbear

This is the original thread about the standard of living in Russia (I couldn't link on my mobile):
twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1508507912171360258

The thread actually continues on with pictures of roads, hospitals and various towns and discusses wages too.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2022 19:57

Max Seddon @maxseddon
Roman Abramovich's eyesight “completely disappeared” after a suspected poisoning while in Ukraine for peace talks, I'm told.

“We did not identify the substance. No idea who was behind [the attack] — but it looks like Roman was the main target.”

www.ft.com/content/b7315885-0ee4-49d4-98d1-292e5225be06
Abramovich suffered suspected poisoning after peace talks in Kyiv