“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

When you were childminding and you got the puppy - did any parents withdraw their child?
I would have done

I would as well.

I think parents should do time over things like this.

I know the circumstances here are obviously still being investigated, but in a general sense, I agree. If my toddler was killed by a dog, I’d expect the owner to be prosecuted. I don’t see why it’s different if the dog attacks it’s owner’s child.

[quote tallulahtoo78]@JesusInTheCabbageVan

His point was
With any breed, any breed at all
If you get them as an adult, you don’t know their past triggers and fears until they arise[/quote]
We are on our second adult rescue.

Both dogs we did know their history.
Both dogs are /were a delight, with no issues, other than needing some training. (and our old dog did love to bin dive for food)

So I cannot agree with this statement. I would say that importing a dog with no knowledge eg a street dog, is a risk. I don't agree with charities who bring in dogs straight to homes without assessing them.

And I think many of the dogs waiting in rescues to be rehomed, sadly need to be put down, as their issues are unrealistic.

I recently met a lady who is a dog behaviourist and has 5 dogs. they are all dogs that could never be rehomed with anyone else as they are aggressive, and now solely bonded with her. If she ever had an accident at home etc, the only way you could get an ambulance/medic into the house is to shoot the dogs.

I am sure she loves those dogs, but i would hate to be her neighbour or live in her village. Those dogs should be put down.

Isn't keeping a pet dog cruel? Aren't they pack animals that need another dogs around them to be happy? Sorry if this is wrong but keeping an animal that is built to be active cooped up all day doesn't feel right to me, somehow.

If a dog isn’t suitable to be rehomed with children then presumably that is because the dog has some nervous/aggressive streak which means it is a risk to those wishing to rehome it.

Not necessarily.

The problem with children is that they are physically more vulnerable, so a communicative nip (“don’t touch me there, it hurts or makes me anxious!”) that would be ignored by an adult can harm a child; and children can find it difficult to moderate their behaviour.

[quote UKRAINEwearewithyou]@DogInATent

Ok then so if the list of deaths in the UK recorded as due to dog attack is wrong can you link to the accurate data then? So many people just say something isn't correct but don't have any data to back up their claims... typically as you have done.[/quote]
You missed my point.

There is no accurate data

The deficiencies in the WIki page are obvious.

keeping an animal that is built to be active cooped up all day doesn't feel right to me, somehow

Many dogs aren't built to be particularly active - they are bred as companions ('toy' dogs). But any dog needs not just exercise but mental stimulation appropriate to its energy-levels.

And yet rescues are berated on here for having rules and requirements for adoption.

Important to note that they are berated by parents, not dog owners.

@AlternativePerspective

IMO if a dog is assessed by a rescue as not suitable in a home with children then it should be euthanised.

If a dog isn’t suitable to be rehomed with children then presumably that is because the dog has some nervous/aggressive streak which means it is a risk to those wishing to rehome it. In that instance the dog isn’t IMO suitable for rehoming in any circumstance, and as it’s unfair to keep a dog in kennels for the rest of its life then euthanasia is IMO the best course of action.

Obviously that doesn’t go for all adult dogs, but let’s face it, plenty are advertised through rescues as “not suitable for homes with children.”

As for the parents, sorry but “they’ve lost their baby and that is enough punishment” isn’t good enough. Children die in all manner of circumstances which are as result of the parents. If you fail to strap your child in a car seat and then crash the car is the loss of the child punishment enough? No of course it isn’t.

questions need to be asked and the parents need to question what in God’s name made them go out and buy a dog which is renouned for being aggressive and capable of inflicting serious injury or death on a child.

And while of course there are other aggressive breeds, staffies are built in such a way that the damage they can inflict is far worse than say a Labrador.

And selling a dog over the age of 6 months should be illegal, with any sites, gumtree, pets for homes and the like being prosecuted along with the seller.

I was browsing recues last week and had to send one to my partner, it was so bad it was almost funny. The dog was unsuitable to be around children, cats or other animals. It could not be around dogs and would need to be walked 'in isolated areas where it will not meet dogs or people.' The dog also 'cannot tolerate visitors to the home'. It would not be rehomed with men.

Look. After a certain point someone has to draw the line and say the dog is clearly unable to live as a domestic pet. It was bred as a pet and it cannot be a pet, and it can't go and roam loose in the mountains and we can't eat it. Euthanasia is the best outcome. It's too damaged to live with people.

@Merrymouse

If a dog isn’t suitable to be rehomed with children then presumably that is because the dog has some nervous/aggressive streak which means it is a risk to those wishing to rehome it.

Not necessarily.

The problem with children is that they are physically more vulnerable, so a communicative nip (“don’t touch me there, it hurts or makes me anxious!”) that would be ignored by an adult can harm a child; and children can find it difficult to moderate their behaviour.

But any dog will still come into contact with children on walks, and unless you keep it on the lead 100% of the time (no-one does), it means there's quite a high risk of an aggressive dog attacking a child in a park for example. It makes me really nervous when I'm out for a walk and some random dog comes bounding up to me, as I'm quite small/weak so wouldn't be able to fight it off. I have no idea what it's intentions are. I've even had dogs chase me down the road on my bike.

@OopsaDayZ

I'll probably get slated but I also think ALL bull terrier's should be banned. And that includes the Staffordshire bull terrier that for some reason loads of people love.

They seem so popular, however, it's only particular types of people that seem to like them.

Ignorant and short sighted .

Staffys are great dogs ,unfortunately the "type" of owners they attract are usually the chav type. Not all though and I've never seen a story about a staffy attack from decent owner .

Anyway let's say you get you wish fulfilled and they ban bull breeds. The bad owners will just find another breed . Until they that gets banned
And the cycle will repeat .

@Merrymouse

If a dog isn’t suitable to be rehomed with children then presumably that is because the dog has some nervous/aggressive streak which means it is a risk to those wishing to rehome it.

Not necessarily.

The problem with children is that they are physically more vulnerable, so a communicative nip (“don’t touch me there, it hurts or makes me anxious!”) that would be ignored by an adult can harm a child; and children can find it difficult to moderate their behaviour.

also kids don't understand things like leaving the dog alone, and that cuddling a dog is not the same as a teddy bear, or why the dog doesn't want you to climb on top of it.

Even older kids don't really understand that some of their human interactions are not comfortable for the dog.

and small kids faces are at the same level as a dog's face.

and they move quickly, shriek unpredictably, cry randomly which is confusing.

@Whitney168

... when a dog attacks there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Better to just not have a massive pitbull type you’ve just bought from some random in a house with children.

Couldn't agree more. How many more of these stories do we have to read from these idiots who bring unknown powerful dogs in to their houses with children?

I completely agree and the parents have to take complete accountability for this . They won't though , they will blame everyone else and every other scenario . You can see that just by looking at the photos .

I think the wording -Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended- is a blanket statement and completely incendiary.
It also needs explaining. What does it mean Dog Breed. Are adult mongrels ok and the statement just refers to pure breeds being the problem.

I do think that if you and anyone you live with isn’t a professional dog trainer or someone who has lots of experience in training dogs that have issues you shouldn’t buy an adult dog. No one should be buying dogs off gumtree or Craigslist type places

I do believe that if you are a household of responsible and quiet adults and teens and are all familiar with dogs and are willing to put the effort into training then I don’t see why you can’t get an adult dog

Most reputable rehoming centres when you visit have signs about the dogs and most will say they are not to be re homed with small children.
If you don’t have small children then I don’t see why if you have older children why you can’t adopt an adult dog.

I have only seen a few adult dogs in our local rehoming centre where it has been stated they are ok with children of any age.
2 dogs who had come from one family who it was stated they were ok even with small children stuck in my mind because of how sad their circumstances were.
These were lovely natured dogs who had lived in a loving family (what the family did in order to keep them was extraordinary they loved these dogs so much) They were heartbroken when because of circumstances outside their control they had to come to the conclusion that they had to give up these dogs.
I remember the dogs looking at me and wagging their tails and looking like very happy dogs who wanted to be friends with everyone. I am sure they thought their family were going to come back from holiday soon and collect them and this was just another short stay kennel.

Saying that these dogs should never be rehomed and should have been put to sleep is something I cannot and never will agree with.
I don’t think they lasted a day in the kennels before someone fell in love with them. We had 2 cats and they had never lived with cats otherwise I would have taken them immediately. They looked like 2 very happy boys. I felt so sorry for the family I think I would have asked to foster them and if the family still wanted to keep in touch with them and if their circumstances changed i could give them back to them. It made me cry seeing these dogs who I am sure had never known a cross word or a missed meal suddenly finding themselves in a rehoming centre when people who loved them dearly wanted them back with them but outside circumstances wouldn’t allow it.

@steppemum My local shelter is stocked with nothing but abandoned Staffies. "Found wounded, but all healed now!" - yes, it's an abandoned fighting dog, congratulations, now it can go maul someone else's dog. "Stray Staffie, can't be rehomed with children, must be muzzled, cannot be with other dogs..." I mean, really, what life even is it for the dog?

And these shelters are encouraging people to view a bunch of abused, traumatised, battle-scarred Staffies that have been bred for fighting then kicked out by repulsive owners as possible family pets with their endless 'adopt don't shop' mantra.

I don't want an abused Staffie that "growls at everyone", nor a Jack Russell that "hasn't walked on the floor since 2006, loves his lap cuddles but gets a bit snippy!" Sometimes a damaged dog is just too damaged.

@Kennykenkencat I don't think a 15 or 17 year old wants their arm ripped off by a Staffordshire Terrier any more than a 6 month old does.

And...whoever said they knew exactly the type of family it would be..yes, I'm judging, but you were right. FFS.
Poor little girl

"It's not going to be a chihuahua, cocker spaniel, Yorkshire terrier or red setter, is it?"

Indeed. Given the report says it has to be tested to determine if it's a banned breed means it looks a fuckton like one and probably has some in the mix.

@ninnynonny

And...whoever said they knew exactly the type of family it would be..yes, I'm judging, but you were right. FFS. Poor little girl

This is a horrible thing to say.

[quote EdithRea]@steppemum My local shelter is stocked with nothing but abandoned Staffies. "Found wounded, but all healed now!" - yes, it's an abandoned fighting dog, congratulations, now it can go maul someone else's dog. "Stray Staffie, can't be rehomed with children, must be muzzled, cannot be with other dogs..." I mean, really, what life even is it for the dog?

And these shelters are encouraging people to view a bunch of abused, traumatised, battle-scarred Staffies that have been bred for fighting then kicked out by repulsive owners as possible family pets with their endless 'adopt don't shop' mantra.

I don't want an abused Staffie that "growls at everyone", nor a Jack Russell that "hasn't walked on the floor since 2006, loves his lap cuddles but gets a bit snippy!" Sometimes a damaged dog is just too damaged.[/quote]
Is this a 'no kill' shelter? Probably not in the UK..

No Kill Shelters are the refuge of 'problem' dogs. A responsible rescue organization will know that some dogs will never be suitable for rehoming.

@hugr I don't have a problem with the rescues having strict rules. I generally get annoyed at the sanctimonious "adopt don't shop!" nutters who think we can all just stroll into a rescue for a fresh baked puppy or a 'sweet lovely rescue'.

It's utterly not an option, and looking at any inner-city shelter stuffed to the gills with battle-scarred ex-fighting Staffies, frankly I don't think most new dog owners should be going anywhere near. They are damaged animals with complex needs. The obsession with adoption is just as dangerous, putting unsuitable dogs in inexperienced hands.

Admittedly the family in question bought their little bundle off joy privately so I'm not sure what regulatory change could do, unless they ban selling animals on Gumtree. It still won't prevent puppy farming though.

@DogInATent Yeak, UK, so no kill. They were offering this dog up for rehoming, though, with 'an experienced owner'. A single lady with no visitors and her own woodland, apparently.

While it’s awful that this happened, I strongly disagree with the “expert”. I’ve had adult rescue dogs all my life. I think you’re less likely to have problems with a dog from a good rescue than you are a pup from a bad/greedy breeder personally. You hear it all the time.. “I couldn’t find a rescue that would let me have a dog because my children were young, so I bought a puppy..”

@IncompleteSenten

"It's not going to be a chihuahua, cocker spaniel, Yorkshire terrier or red setter, is it?"

Indeed. Given the report says it has to be tested to determine if it's a banned breed means it looks a fuckton like one and probably has some in the mix.

Neighbours have said it was a Staffie or bulldog.

[quote EdithRea]@steppemum My local shelter is stocked with nothing but abandoned Staffies. "Found wounded, but all healed now!" - yes, it's an abandoned fighting dog, congratulations, now it can go maul someone else's dog. "Stray Staffie, can't be rehomed with children, must be muzzled, cannot be with other dogs..." I mean, really, what life even is it for the dog?

And these shelters are encouraging people to view a bunch of abused, traumatised, battle-scarred Staffies that have been bred for fighting then kicked out by repulsive owners as possible family pets with their endless 'adopt don't shop' mantra.

I don't want an abused Staffie that "growls at everyone", nor a Jack Russell that "hasn't walked on the floor since 2006, loves his lap cuddles but gets a bit snippy!" Sometimes a damaged dog is just too damaged.[/quote]
True.
Sometimes the amount of abuse and trauma a dog has suffered means they don't stand a chance at anything like a normal life.

There comes a point when you have to wonder whether life at any cost is the right decision for the dog.

This is a horrible thing to say.

It was said upthread. It does seem to be people who really have no idea what kind of damage a dog like that can do, but just use it to look 'hard'. Sorry, but it's often true! This is why we have to check owners really carefully and stamp out Gumtree and suchlike sales.