“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

It doesn't help that tiktok and facebook is full of videos of small children alone with dogs.

The only two dogs I've had were adult rescues and they were absolute dotes. One in particular loved children.

@Auvergnewater

Yet whenever someone posts about wanting a dog, they get shamed for not going to a rescue.

According to the BBC report this wasn’t a rehomed dog from a reputable rehoming charity that will assess the dog in appropriate situations and have a profile of the type of home that is suitable - it was ‘bought’. So bought as an adult dog with presumably no guarantees to its provenance and temperament. There’s a world of difference between the two.

@dollymuchymuchness

I’ve said on this forum that you should avoid getting a dog if you have small children. I was soundly rebuked for that point of view, as posters reassured everyone that their dog was fine with their baby and toddler.

IMHO it’s crazy to get a dog when you have young children, or if you are planning a family.

I've got a dog and young children. The dog came first and is small so his safety has always been paramount. He's never alone with the children. They interract really well when they are supervised together but that's because we've always been super strict with the contact the toddler has. Generally she gets free reign but when she's with the dog she knows that if he shows any sign of distress (we've taught these) she moves away. If we tell her to move away, she moves away. He likes to see the baby but she's getting to the grabby stage and we supervise them closely.

At the same time, he's physically too small to do them any damage. If he growls at the toddler, she'll tell us he's telling her off.

It's like having a massive open fireplace in your living room and if a toddling baby falls in you say "it was just an accident, surely losing your baby is enough punishment?"

This has go to be up there in the 10 most ridiculous things ever posted on mumsnet!

Any dog can potentially be aggressive to babies and young children. Its about the dog, not just the breed.

I agree. However it appears to be the case that far more deaths and serious injuries are caused by specific types of dogs. They're especially strong and need owners that know how to handle them. I mean you can get a bite from a golden retriever but I don't think I've ever heard of one going so savage that it mauls and kills a child.

I also do think it's really important than young children learn how to be around and how to respect animals as well as it being important for animals to know how to be around humans.

@pumpkinpie01

What the hell was going through those parents minds when they got that dog , they don't know the history and by the sound of it the breed is undetermined too. Yes they have lost their daughter but they have been extremely negligent , that poor poor girl .

I think a lot of people have bought into the idea that as long as you treat a dog right, they'll be fine around kids. The whole 'don't blame the dog blame the owner' when attacks happen. Maybe they were misled by the seller into believing the dog was okay with children, and decided that trusting the seller's word was good enough. Any dog can snap and seriously harm or kill a child but a lot of people are blind to that truth. How many times do you see families with huge dogs laid with a tiny baby or a toddler trying to pull their tail or ride them with a 'aww best nanny dog' or other nonsense?

I think they were naive and reckless, but they also got unlucky as so many people up and down the country do the same and are lucky nothing bad happens. No doubt they thought that they were doing something nice in taking the dog on and providing a playmate for the kids. I feel desperately sorry for them.

I'm extremely wary of dogs being around my toddler and would never think of getting one while he's so small, the risks might be comparatively low but the consequences are too high for me to be comfortable with.

Terrible story, the poor baby.

I think there needs to be a huge upheaval to the 'family dog/man's best friend/boyhood dog' tropes. People get dogs with the expectation they are amazing additions to the family with young children.

Dogs are incredible members of the family but they are as big a commitment as having a child. You are making the decision to bring an animal into the home that could kill you. They are autonomous creatures that require attention, respect, routine and discipline along with love and even then they are unpredictable.

There is always a danger of adopting dogs that you haven't raised from a pup and there's always a very taboo attitude whenever that it brought up.

'Adopt don't shop' is such a knee jerk reaction when someone wants a dog but it's not always possible. If you want a dog with young children it needs to be a puppy, if this comes from a reputable breeder or from a welfare facility that doesn't matter but rearing a puppy in the family is the best way to keep children safe. That way the puppy grows up understanding the family structure, being exposed to the individuals in the house and learning the appropriate ways to behave. It REDUCES (not removes) the chances of attacks.

Very often adult dogs enter homes with no/little experience of young children and it goes horribly wrong. This is why facilities will not allow dogs (especially adults) into the homes of young children, it's not safe.

There should be a governmental department that issues licences for both breeders and owners where appropriate checks are carried out to stop these kinds of private sales from happening. When people buy and sell dogs without understanding the breed/animal itself it always ends in tears. Unfortunately this time it ended with that poor little girl tragically losing her life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofffataldoggattacksinntheUniteddKingdom

@BeautifulGreenEyes

Absolute load of ROT that ANY type of adult dog should not be near babies and small children. It's only certain types of dogs... Like it's only CERTAIN TYPES of people, who have these certain types of dogs.

Let's not sugar coat this. We're all grown-ups here. We know the score. We know what type of dog it was and we know what type of people owned it.

I hope they go to prison for a LONG TIME for the death of this poor, unfortunate baby.

I disagree. I used to work in A&E and saw loads of young children with dog bites, from all kinds of dogs. One of the worst was a 3 year old who'd had her lips completely bitten off by a yorkshire terrier. The family had bought it as a puppy, normally friendly and well behaved. Child sitting in garden cuddling dog and eating an ice cream when the dog attacked.

@CannaBelieve

What breed was the dog? I can't bring myself to read the article!

I strongly believe all dogs should be neutered. We have too many dogs in homing centres

I'm sure you can probably narrow it down to one of a handful.

It's not going to be a chihuahua, cocker spaniel, Yorkshire terrier or red setter, is it?

@Coyoacan

It doesn't help that tiktok and facebook is full of videos of small children alone with dogs.

The only two dogs I've had were adult rescues and they were absolute dotes. One in particular loved children.

Those photos and videos honestly make me feel sick. I can't believe how naïve some people are. I'm a huge animal lover, deeply respect animals, multi decade vegan, believe passionately in the rights of all animals. But dogs aren't people and putting them in that kind of position puts both the child and the dog at risk. It really makes me feel sick but I suppose parents all have different levels of risk assessment and constantly do things that are unsafe for their children, look how many pictures you see of people putting their babies to sleep in unsafe spaces despite the wealth of info you get given about safe sleep. People always think it won't happen to them, until it does.

We knew we wanted a big dog so we waited until our youngest was 17,maybe a bit too cautious but when I think of the poor little girl who has had her life taken,my heart breaks a little. RIP Bella-Rae ♥️

@Goldbar - I might set the age a little lower (but it depends on the relative maturity of the child and the breed of dog*), but I doubt your suggestion is that controversial with anyone other than those parents of very young children that think a dog is a good idea.

• the only breed I'd recommend for young children is the CKC, but there are now so many inbred health issues with that breed I'm not sure they should be recommended for anyone until the KC recognizes the issues and insists on improvements.

@NashvilleQueen

[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List]]offfataldoggattacksinntheUniteddKingdom

I never forgot the story of Bethany Stephens, who was killed and eaten by her two dogs while walking them in the US a few years back. Or the case of Jacqueline Durand who was bitten 800 times on the face by two dogs she was dogsitting (google her image at your risk, it's nightmarish to see what they did to her). And Tiffany L. Frangione, who was mauled to death by her own dogs when she tried to break up a fight in her garden between them and another dog.

When you think about these stories, it's absolute madness to consider bringing a powerful adult dog with an unknown history into a home with tiny children, I mean for god's sake. A dog doesn't see things the way we do. And small children as so tiny and vulnerable. Heartbreaking.

Responsible dog people have got to stop pretending there is any kind of nanny dog. Stop demonising buying a puppy from a reputable breeder, and start promoting responsible ownership.

And ffs, stop demonising euthanasia. There are not enough knowledgeable child free homes for all the dogs needing one and the dog doesnt stop being a risk; not when its being walked in public and not when there are visitors.
(In any case, did it never occur to anyone that knowledgeable owners who can do that kind of rehabilitation deserve a break from dealing with an endless supply of broken dogs?)

@RJnomore1

The breed doesn’t really matter now the damage is done. If I remember correctly a Jack Russell was involved in a fatal incident with a baby a few years ago.

People are so careless with their children and their dogs sometimes. I get the absolute fear with all these videos of tiny babies propped on dogs for cuteness and oh isn’t my dog good new bff shite. They’re all over social media; why take the risk? Not just for the child but the dog you’re supposed to love too.

I agree. I was once walking a large dog and parents let a tiny girl come right up to its face without asking me. Her head and the dog's mouth were the same height - very stupid.

It's not going to be a chihuahua, cocker spaniel, Yorkshire terrier or red setter, is it?

I definitely wouldn't trust either a chihuahua or Yorkshire terrier with a 17mo child. If you think that neither if these nippy, highly-strung breeds is capable of inflicting life-changing or fatal injuries on a small child then you're deluding yourself. Likewise dachsunds (considered by many vets to be the breed most likely to bite/nip), Westies, and other ankle-height and handbag-sized small status breeds.

A cocker is more likely to inflict blunt force trauma injuries from bouncing them off the furniture than nip them, and I can't remember the last time I saw a Red Setter. Lovely breed, but big, clumsy, and prone to chasing the horizon.

But that's the whole point, @TeloMere - you saw lots of young children with dog bites, not children or adults who had been killed.

All dogs can bite, no-one is denying that. Yes, the oft quoted terriers have occasionally killed babies, horrific. However, the ones that are causing serious injuries or killing children and adults are not Yorkshire Terriers or Jack Russells.

My parents have two lovely, soft black labs who have never shown the slightest aggression towards my DDs (3 and 7) but I've never left them alone together.
That said, to a PPs point, I have also seen dog attacks where multiple adults could not get a dog off another one. Far safer to not get a new dog with young children. Period.

Those dogs are just so blimming powerful. When looking for an adult rescue for our family ds was 12. I still opted for a small mouthed, small-sized breed. So, if the worst did happen, the damage before I could intervene would be likely to be minimal. I know small-mouthed small-sized breeds can still harm the fall-out is likely to be far less devastating for all.

@Coyoacan

It doesn't help that tiktok and facebook is full of videos of small children alone with dogs.

The only two dogs I've had were adult rescues and they were absolute dotes. One in particular loved children.

God this in spades.

Search Palmer and Ford on any social media. It makes me go cold.

This breaks my heart! My DD2 is about the same age as that poor girl and the thought of that happening to her is too much.

I wouldn’t get a dog to look tough and I would be extra vigilant in training it and keeping it away from children but I will still not get a dog of any age or breed until my children are teens/adults. I couldn’t forgive myself if something happened.

We looked after a friend’s labradoodle who was the soppiest, loveliest thing and spent most of his time inside lying on the sofa. Our DD was 4/5 the times we looked after him and I still never left him with her unattended. Not even for a minute to go to the toilet.

@RJnomore1

The breed doesn’t really matter now the damage is done. If I remember correctly a Jack Russell was involved in a fatal incident with a baby a few years ago.

People are so careless with their children and their dogs sometimes. I get the absolute fear with all these videos of tiny babies propped on dogs for cuteness and oh isn’t my dog good new bff shite. They’re all over social media; why take the risk? Not just for the child but the dog you’re supposed to love too.

Oh god yes we see it all the time, dogs lying right next to a baby's face. I just can't even look at pictures like that on social media..

My mum has a toothless half blind 15 year old lapdog thats never said boo to a goose and i would never ever leave her alone with my baby. Its an animal and its unpredictable.