“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

I have a dog that I’ve had from a pup and a toddler and I totally agree. Would never advise anyone with young children to have a dog.

@berksandbeyond

It’ll be the usual kind of dog and the usual kind of owner. It always is. Poor wee girl

Sadly it will be I can almost picture the photo of the parents when released We’ve seen it all before

@TenoringBehind

Awful, awful story but the sweeping statement just isn’t true and is far too simplistic.

I rehomed two adult golden retrievers with the most gentle temperaments of any dogs I’ve known before or since.

Totally and there's a huge difference between for example rehoming a retired guide dog through the Guide Dog Trust and importing a Romanian street dog through a facebook group or buying a second or third hand American Bulldog off gumtree...

People who agree with this 'expert' - what do you think should happen to puppies when people get bored of them? Should they automatically be killed?

Absolute load of ROT that ANY type of adult dog should not be near babies and small children. It's only certain types of dogs... Like it's only CERTAIN TYPES of people, who have these certain types of dogs.

Let's not sugar coat this. We're all grown-ups here. We know the score. We know what type of dog it was and we know what type of people owned it.

I hope they go to prison for a LONG TIME for the death of this poor, unfortunate baby.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

People who agree with this 'expert' - what do you think should happen to puppies when people get bored of them? Should they automatically be killed?

No Given to an adult only family with extensive experience of raising dogs including those with behavioural issues

@BeautifulGreenEyes

Absolute load of ROT that ANY type of adult dog should not be near babies and small children. It's only certain types of dogs... Like it's only CERTAIN TYPES of people, who have these certain types of dogs.

Let's not sugar coat this. We're all grown-ups here. We know the score. We know what type of dog it was and we know what type of people owned it.

I hope they go to prison for a LONG TIME for the death of this poor, unfortunate baby.

Please read be OP

You have got the wrong end of the stick

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

People who agree with this 'expert' - what do you think should happen to puppies when people get bored of them? Should they automatically be killed?

Maybe there needs to be some kind of licensing system involved in buying and selling animals, so there is a registered owner and a record of things like how old the dog is and who has previously owned it. Dogs should be rehomed through registered charities rather than bought and sold on facebook to ensure they are going to suitable homes. I would definitely ban importing strays with no background or history. While it would be sad if unwanted dogs were put down, better that than children die.

The breed doesn’t really matter now the damage is done. If I remember correctly a Jack Russell was involved in a fatal incident with a baby a few years ago.

People are so careless with their children and their dogs sometimes. I get the absolute fear with all these videos of tiny babies propped on dogs for cuteness and oh isn’t my dog good new bff shite. They’re all over social media; why take the risk? Not just for the child but the dog you’re supposed to love too.

I’ve said on this forum that you should avoid getting a dog if you have small children. I was soundly rebuked for that point of view, as posters reassured everyone that their dog was fine with their baby and toddler.

IMHO it’s crazy to get a dog when you have young children, or if you are planning a family.

@Bearfrills

My point is that no one knows the exact circumstances yet as the police haven't finished investigating.

The parents had a 17mo child and bought an adult dog a week ago. I'm struggling to see a circumstance where the parents are not at fault. The child and the dog pay the price for their decisions.

We have a Staffy, and they're a much maligned breed. But they're also a much-abused breed. If tests are being done to determine if it's a Pitbull, then it's either a Pitbull or a cross. There's not as much identity confusion between pitbulls and bull terriers as non-owners would have you believe (even though there's a huge difference between KC breed-standard SBTs and normal family dogs).

Yet whenever someone posts about wanting a dog, they get shamed for not going to a rescue.

@BoodleBug51

The problem isn't with the dog though, let's be honest. All dogs are products of their environments, and for most dogs like this, it's being kept in a confined space, little or no exercise or mental stimulation and being baited by the male owner to show how "hard" he is.

Yes, the problem is that a lot of shitty owners are attracted to the dogs that they think make them look tough. So you have a dog who already has a tendency to be aggressive, because they've been bred for traits that make them good guards or good at fighting. And with a decent, experienced owner, that dog would probably turn out just fine, but in the hands of a prick, they don't. And then those are the dogs that end up in shelters or being sold on unofficially. I'd confidently take on a golden retriever from a rescue centre, but generally there aren't many in there. I have to add, I've known lots of GSDs and staffies from rescues who were just gorgeous, but generally the owners who've taken them on have worked really hard to undo the damage of the first months/year.

What a tragedy.

What's needed is real education about dog ownership. People often don't have a clue how to manage a dog or the safety issues and it's so important. Even things like not leaving a child and a dog alone for any period no matter how short. Making sure the child doesn't grab at or poke the dog and certainly not lie down on the dog.

There is so much that can be done to help people understand the dos and don'ts of dog ownership.

The fact it's being tested shows it wasn't a tiddly little poodle mix and probably not a rescue.

Private sales of dogs should be banned, someone selling a dog may not be truthful about behaviour problems.
Rescues will assess the dog's health and behaviour and do home checks to ensure dog is suitable for the family.

It's like having a massive open fireplace in your living room and if a toddling baby falls in you say "it was just an accident, surely losing your baby is enough punishment?"

I don't really understand this - that is what happens - I've never heard of somebody going to prison for their baby having an avoidable accident at home? It's different if the parents were passed out from alcohol/drugs and the baby fell down the stairs or something.

The risks of dogs and small children are really poorly understood by a lot of people, I think it's quite likely to end up in a situation where parents literally didn't know they were taking a risk. And to find out in the most awful way :(

Maybe there should be more education in general rather than extremes (banning dogs, making blanket statements). Because it seems every time this happens the papers are outraged and then it gets into an unhelpfully "sided debate" where you have "dogs are evil menaces" vs "no they are innocent lovely creatures, my dog would never" and nothing changes. The reality is it's not about whether dogs are trustworthy or not, it's down to owners to take responsibility and accept their dog is capable of causing harm and manage that risk.

Dog licensing with a mandatory course about dog psychology, modern training methods and the risks around young children/other animals would be the best approach IMO. Phase it in so that existing dog owners have chance to get the qualification. Since all dogs have to be microchipped and registered it would be easy to prove you were already a dog owner by a certain date and do a shorter course. Maybe refresher courses if someone is responsible for an anti-social dog incident (minor bite etc)? Like those speed awareness things. Everybody accepts that cars are risky but beneficial, so we manage the risks. There doesn't need to be a debate between "All cars are killing machines, ban them" vs "But I am a perfectly safe driver!" - it's simple - we make people pass a test to get a licence and then they are banned if they can't handle the risk reliably.

Any dog can potentially be aggressive to babies and young children. Its about the dog, not just the breed.

There are so many wonderful adult dogs in need of re-homing that make brilliant pets, I think it's unfair to use that as a sweeping statement. That being said, it's only safe in certain circumstances and I would say not appropriate with young children in the house - there is a reason rescues will state only older children or adult-only homes.

@BeautifulGreenEyes

Absolute load of ROT that ANY type of adult dog should not be near babies and small children. It's only certain types of dogs... Like it's only CERTAIN TYPES of people, who have these certain types of dogs.

Let's not sugar coat this. We're all grown-ups here. We know the score. We know what type of dog it was and we know what type of people owned it.

I hope they go to prison for a LONG TIME for the death of this poor, unfortunate baby.

Agree with this I'm afraid. It is a certain type of owner who has dogs which pose a threat to children. Who train them to fight and be aggressive or who frighten them into being so.

All dogs can be a threat yes. But that risk is negated when proper training of both people and dogs is involved. If you have children and dogs then certain precautions have to be taken. Particularly with a new dog. But a knowledgeable experienced owner will know how to handle the situation and the risk to the child will be minimal.

JesusInTheCabbageVan

People who agree with this 'expert' - what do you think should happen to puppies when people get bored of them? Should they automatically be killed?

No. Given to an adult only family with extensive experience of raising dogs including those with behavioural issues

Such people are few and far between, and they're going to be even less common if you want to ban anyone from adopting adult dogs.

Also, there have been many cases where a dog has been raised from a puppy and yet has still killed a child.

Don't get me wrong, there is more that can be done, but banning or massively restricting adoption of all adult dogs is not the answer.

@Auvergnewater

Yet whenever someone posts about wanting a dog, they get shamed for not going to a rescue.

This wasn't a rescue dog from a reputable organization. It's one of the few things that can be said with absolute certainty about this tragedy.

This will probably be controversial but I strongly believe that dogs should not be brought into households with children younger than 7 or 8 (fair enough if the dog was there beforehand and the parents can manage the risks). I don't understand why anyone chooses to have dogs around young children. We'd love a dog but will be waiting until our DC are older and less at risk (and can behave responsibility around a dog).

People need to be more aware of breed traits. Some dog are just not suitable as family pets.
If you go for an adult dog ask yourself why?

"Bully" type dogs seem to be very popular at the moment. Problem is, people go for looks and don't consider the history of the breed. Guard dogs, fighting dogs and even some gun/ hunting breeds and their crosses are unsuitable for a suburban lifestyle. They are often very intelligent and driven by their instincts and need to be trained & handled accordingly. I'm a firm believer that a dog needs a "job" that reflects its traits.

Add the fact that this is an adolescent or adult rescue dog in need of training and consistency with inexperienced owners and you end up with a child killer.

Not surprised, and it will happen again and again because everyone thinks their dog would never turn.

Such people are few and far between, and they're going to be even less common if you want to ban anyone from adopting adult dogs.

To clarify... I mean if you want to ban first time owners from adopting adult dogs.