“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

@NashvilleQueen

My best friend is a police officer. The VAST majority of dog attacks he is called to involve 'family' breeds - specifically labradors and retrievers.

Why are the police called in this instance? Who calls them?

The police are called because generally if theres a dog attack there's a person who owns an out of control dog and a dog who's likely to cause harm to more people.

The dog will generally need to be detained before you can expect a paramedic to attend the scene.

Most dogs will be destroyed after an attack on a human.

I haven’t read the full thread. Every time there a incident like this the whole debate about staffies comes up. I have owned staffies and I walk staffies, they are great dogs but not the easiest to train. At the end of the day no dog should be trusted around children and no dog should be left alone with a child. Any dog can attack it’s just some breeds can cause more damage due to the size of them and the size of their jaw.

Having had a rescue dog that went for my dd I would be hesitant at rescuing another. Some rescues are great but others are just in a hurry to move dogs in without fully accessing them and not knowing their background. Most rescues won’t home a dog with under 5’s but lately I have seen many (mainly dogs from abroad) being advertised as ‘can be homes with young children’, often the new owner doesn’t get to meet the dog/puppy until it arrives in the uk, to me this is dangerous and stupid?

I have a Rottweiler she’s huge! And a 1 year old and a three year old. She was a rescue however well before the kids came and I have to agree as sad as it is no dog is ever safe with a toddler especially a rescue. The problem is a lot of family’s don’t see the risk until the Terror is happening. So so sad 😞

@Nobodycarestakeitelsewhere, very well said!

@StepAwayFromGoogling

I mean, I said it upthread but I'll say it again. My best friend is a police officer. The VAST majority of dog attacks he is called to involve 'family' breeds - specifically labradors and retrievers. They generally don't get reported if not fatal, and not from a banned or suspected banned breed. So we really do need to give up on the 'these breeds are dangerous and these breeds are not' rhetoric. Because that in itself is dangerous. ALL dogs have the potential to defend, bite or attack if they feel threatened. And a tiny person clambering over them, pulling their tail, shrieking may be that threat.

Sorry, is your friend being called to sustained maulings causing loss of life or limb that are somehow avoiding the mainstream news?

We get it, any dog can bite, no-one is denying that. Labradors have topped the bite statistics for as long as I can remember, purely on the basis that they have been the most numerically strong dog for decades (overtaken now by the Frenchie, but it's a recent thing).

There are bites and bites though, and what most people have an issue with is the claim that breed has no relevance, when it is very clear that there are some dog types that cannot be stopped once they attack, with disastrous consequences.

@WetLookKnitwear

small children and any kind of dog aren’t a good mix.

For goodness sake. Me, my brother, my late partner and his siblings and all my cousins grew up with dogs (mostly GSDs, a boxer and 2 x Dobermanns, but one aunt had a pair of Cairn terriers and another had Sealyhams).

The only one of us that ever suffered a dog-related injury was a cousin who broke his wrist when he fell over a sleeping GSD.

I will never understand why people feel the need to get certain aggressive breeds when they have children. Surely the children, and their safety, should come first??

There are no words to articulate just how tragic this is x

I don't understand the thought of getting a dog when you're pregnant, have a new born or toddler age.
Don't they already have enough to do taking care of small children without adding a dog?

People don't understand the needs of each breed. The amount of exercise and training required.

People buy a huge dog with a heavy exercise need and expect it to spend all day in a tiny flat with a couple 10 minute walks.

Then people get bored with it and they do nothing with it but feed it and let it out the garden.

No wonder these animals have behaviour problems. Then add in the type of men who want pit bulls who drink and kick or beat them when angry.

Add in the pet hoarders.

My sister was wanting to get a rescue and 80% of the dogs were pit bulls and other banned breeds. No thanks.

@shrunkenhead

I will never understand why people feel the need to get certain aggressive breeds when they have children. Surely the children, and their safety, should come first??

I don't understand this either. I know someone who has young kids and 3 massive dogs including 2 Rottweilers. Yes she has had them since puppies, but leads a hectic lifestyle, own business, 2 small kids etc. I just don't understand why you would do it. Surely there is always the risk of a pack mentality with a few large dogs like this?

With all the dogs currently needing to be rehomed, animal charities are urging us to "Adopt , don't shop" . Most of the dogs are adult ranging from 1 y/o to elderly. Are you saying all these dogs are risky or just that they need to be adopted by experienced owners ? I know the shelters close to me thoroughly vet those hoping to adopt, including previous or other current pets. Is this not standard practice ?

@Whitney168 - dog attacks, not just bites. I didn't specifically ask for a breakdown of statistics on limbs affected/lost. I understand that they are less likely to cause death, yes, but not serious injury. He was responding to me banging on about dangerous breeds. People don't call the police when a dog nips someone.

Ah the old 'Nanny Dog' bollocks that gets trotted out every time a child is mauled to death. Perhaps the Kennel Club need to update their literature then!

@RantyAunty

I don't understand the thought of getting a dog when you're pregnant, have a new born or toddler age. Don't they already have enough to do taking care of small children without adding a dog?

People don't understand the needs of each breed. The amount of exercise and training required.

People buy a huge dog with a heavy exercise need and expect it to spend all day in a tiny flat with a couple 10 minute walks.

Then people get bored with it and they do nothing with it but feed it and let it out the garden.

No wonder these animals have behaviour problems. Then add in the type of men who want pit bulls who drink and kick or beat them when angry.

Add in the pet hoarders.

My sister was wanting to get a rescue and 80% of the dogs were pit bulls and other banned breeds. No thanks.

LOL. If they were banned breeds they wouldnt be rehomed.

@GrandRapids

Ah the old 'Nanny Dog' bollocks that gets trotted out every time a child is mauled to death. Perhaps the Kennel Club need to update their literature then!

Or it's the owners not the dog

@StepAwayFromGoogling

I mean, I said it upthread but I'll say it again. My best friend is a police officer. The VAST majority of dog attacks he is called to involve 'family' breeds - specifically labradors and retrievers. They generally don't get reported if not fatal, and not from a banned or suspected banned breed. So we really do need to give up on the 'these breeds are dangerous and these breeds are not' rhetoric. Because that in itself is dangerous. ALL dogs have the potential to defend, bite or attack if they feel threatened. And a tiny person clambering over them, pulling their tail, shrieking may be that threat.

this is really interesting.

Certainly not what you would expect.

@Doglikeahorse

The nanny dog thing is still coming up. It was a marketing propaganda campaign invented in the 1970s to alleviate the fears people had about pits and sbts. It’s spouted time and time again by lovers of bull breeds who clearly haven’t researched the past of the pets they own. All bulls are descended from animals bred for blood sport. They have a strong will and need a strong competent owner. There’s no getting away from that fact and encouraging young families to get bullies by crying nanny dog is idiotic at best.

Statistically the majority of fatal attacks have also been bull breeds. The facts is clearly there for anyone to research. So many more than any other breed including GSD/Rotties etc.

I don’t hate any dogs but I really wish people would be more careful. Every time it seems to be the same story. A newly aquired bull type breed, undertrained and under exercised, usually shown aggression before, mostly always young uncastrated males.

It’s really about education. People need to stop putting rose tinted glasses on and claiming any dog can be fixed with love and kisses. It’s not true, genetics plays a huge part in pretty much most of the dogs personality. People don’t buy collies and then act shocked when they want to herd but will happily buy an animal genetically predisposed to animal aggression with a huge prey drive and then wonder why it’s bitten another dog or a ‘prey like’ small child.

Don’t get me started on the constant complaints on rescues either. All day I listen to moanings of people complaining that they can’t get a dog from a reputable rescue because they have small children/cats/don’t have any experience in training a dog or owning a dog and work all day…maybe there’s a reason for the refusal then. Don’t worry though they will just fly one in instead

My heart breaks for the parents it really does but I think it’s time now for a huge change in the way dog ownership is policed and managed and the legalities of passing on dogs to other people needs to be more regulated.

Oh and just a disclaimer. I don’t hate bull breeds, far from it. I have met many lovely ones.
Would I have one around my dog? No. Would I have one around my child. No.
I wouldn’t object to experienced, responsible knowledgable owners owning them however but how can this possibly be policed?

This is an excellent comment but I think the people that don't want to listen will just be going 'la la la' with their fingers in their ears....

I totally agree with you in that whilst I don't hate all bull breeds I certainly wouldn't have one around my dogs or child. In fact a couple of weeks ago I was walking my dogs when this man was walking towards me being towed along by this enormous (looked like a bulldog). I moved to the side to give myself a bit short f distance as my dogs can be nervous. As he went past he made a sarcastic comment 'oh look Tyson, this person doesn't want to come anywhere near you' - nope mate, you're dead right I don't!

Bit mad to say no adult dogs with kids. If mine needed to go into rescue, he would just crawl into the nearest lap for cuddles. He would not care if his fur was pulled, tail was yanked etc. Very chill dog.

@shrunkenhead

I will never understand why people feel the need to get certain aggressive breeds when they have children. Surely the children, and their safety, should come first??

Status. To an extent all dog breeds are status breeds to some owners, but when you're seeking status through Pitbulls or Piranhas it's a certain image you're wishing to present. Staffies have become quite middle-class around here, so the status owners looking to the bigger pitbull breeds (or Frenchies, where the price of the dog is the status symbol).

That's not to say that young children aren't themselves occasionally status objects with the same people that seek a status dog.

@Agrudge I meant in certain areas. Some housing associations ban while others don't.

@hiredandsqueak

Poor girl. It doesn't sound like the dog was from a rescue who almost certainly wouldn't have rehomed to a family with a toddler. We have a rescue that we rehomed when she was nine. Even though she has never given us any reason to worry that she would snap she is never in the same room as my toddler grandson because he's a toddler and he could unintentionally hurt the dog who could bite as a result.

This is an eminently sensible comment. We were brought up with dogs and how to behave around them was drummed into us, but we were older. A 17 month old (too young to pick up any warning cues or retain any instructions) and a powerful dog of uncertain history, new to the household, was a recipe for disaster. Poor little girl.

[quote RantyAunty]@Agrudge I meant in certain areas. Some housing associations ban while others don't.[/quote]
I wasnt aware HA banned certain dogs

We get it, any dog can bite, no-one is denying that. Labradors have topped the bite statistics for as long as I can remember, purely on the basis that they have been the most numerically strong dog for decades (overtaken now by the Frenchie, but it's a recent thing).

Isn’t this based on registrations with KC? But for non-registered dogs, I think SBTs are pretty high up the list in terms of being the most numerous dog. Trying to find some reliable stats on that is difficult though.

I can't understand why anyone in their right mind would bring an adult dog into their home with a young child. I'm presuming they are not the most intelligent of people? You have no idea what issues it may have had.

Tbh I'm just not a dog lover anyway - the more selfish and ridiculous behaviour I see from dog-owners the more this culture of breeding (often at the detriment of the dogs health) dogs really doesn't sit well with me.

I've stopped walking in my local park because there are so many, in my opinion, frankly dangerous dogs off-lead - even in the parts of the park they are supposed to be leashed. I'm seeing more and more of the American pit bull type and staffys, Doberman's etc. It is so unfair and antisocial. They run up to you and it's obvious the owners have absolutely no control over them.
Fucking idiots.

I am also a dog expert who works in a rescue centre. Any person still spouting wolf pack theory bullshit is not a dog expert to be trusted.

It’s utterly insane to hear the details of this case (as we know them so far) & then claim a single man in his 50s couldn’t possibly safely rehome a 5 year old Yorkie that ended up in rescue because it’s 90 year old owner died.

You could raise a dog from a puppy & it can still have triggers. Most people raising dogs don’t have a clue what they’re doing and don’t seek help from reputable sources.

The biggest study ever done into dog aggression was done by Bristol University and findings were very interesting. There really isn’t such a thing as an aggressive dog. Some are fear aggressive. Some food aggressive. Some dog aggressive etc. no dog is just “aggressive”. No breed is just “aggressive”. Being an owner under 25 years old massively increases the likelihood of a dog having aggression issues.

You could be a young couple with a baby and toddler who decides to get a Collie from a local farm breeder and I’d tell you that’s insane. Utterly irresponsible. They’re a working dog which high needs and not appropriate for a young family. If you got a 2 year old rescue golden retriever who had previously lived with small children but the owner lost their job and can’t care for them anymore…that’s a much more sensible option. Black and white thinking is rarely sensible. Dog ownership is no different.

If you are extremely concerned about a dog harming your children…don’t get a dog full stop. It isn’t an essential requirement.