“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

FFS in my example a kid hit my dog on the nose, a very sensitive area. Are you saying kids shouldn't be taught to respect dogs?

My first dog, a veritable saint among dogs who never put a paw wrong, once snapped (no contact made, just a warning) at a child that was crawling round the floor of my busy local.

I was about to give the dog a thorough telling-off when another customer stopped me: he had seen the child poke a straw up the dog's nose, ffs. Can you imagine how much that must have hurt?

Newcastle Dog & Shelter
Tizer
No Comments595

Tizer – Dog Number 1889 – Age (approx) 6 years old – SBT X Shar pei – Arrival Date – January 2022.

Tizer needs an adult only home and to be the only animal in the home.

Tizer is a handsome lad who can be a real goof ball and never fails to bring a belly laugh to our days! He has a hilarious personality and has quickly became the jester of the shelter!

Tizer is strong as an ox and can be easily distracted, over-excited and boisterous, but he has a true heart of gold and, once he’s your friend, he wants to be your best friend forever! Prepare yourself to be covered in muddy pawprints as he jumps up desperate to get some fuss from you.

Tizer can be quite challenging; his size and strength alone can make him difficult to manage, and he can get overwhelmed easily. Tizer will need a physically strong owner with great patience and understanding to help him through the times he finds difficult. He would benefit massively from an owner who has a real interest and understanding of dog training and behaviours, and certainly experience of strong breeds would be beneficial.

We make no bones about it, we know Tizer will take up a lot of your time, and will demand a great deal of focus, but we also know the rewards will be massive as you watch him grown in confidence and encourage his brain to start choosing more positive behaviours. Tizer will be worth all of your hard work and he will repay you for your time and commitment with endless amounts of fun and love, ready to face many fun adventures as you face your new journey together.

small children and any kind of dog aren’t a good mix.

Always astounds me when people try and defend the dog breed on these threads. How many chihuahuas have killed children?
There's no place in society for pitbulls. There's a terrifying new trend of breeding them bigger and stronger, and training them as "security" dogs. They're calling them American bullies and XL bullies. People should have to be licensed to own one. I can't actually see any good argument for having these dogs in society at all tbh. They don't serve any useful purpose and they're bloody dangerous.

And there's nothing wrong with putting down a biter. It's the only responsible thing to do. Although on Mumsnet you'll be demonised for doing so.

I agree it's irresponsible to try and find homes for dogs that are aggressive. That advert that a pp posted about a single woman with no visitors - how many of those are available?

I don't have dogs (although I walk a friends one regularly) and I do t think they should be able to be sold on.

And I don't understand why some people haven't got the message that dogs can be dangerous around children!

Was replying to @ChuckBerrysBoots and pressed send too soon.

I agree with your point.

This is a dog from a rescue near us, he was rehoused a while ago and recently appeared back on the website so has obviously been returned for whatever reason. He's displaying a lot of challenging behaviours and it makes me wonder how such a dog could ever be safely rehomed.

We rescued a puppy from them a few weeks ago and ended up having to return her the same day because she was lovely, had been lovely during introduction sessions, lovely in the car, lovely in the garden, but as soonnas she came into the house she became increasingly aggressive and agitated. This behaviour culminated in her going for my 7yr olds, he was minding his own business at the time and not in contact with her, she lunged across the sofa headed for his face with her jaws open. I was sitting in between them and thankfully caught her before she reached him but it was split second and easily could have gone the other way. She was in the car and back at the shelter immediately after ehuch is sad for all involved but was necessary. She's been rehomed now and I sincerely hope she's gone to a home without children.

Personally I think the whole area of dog ownership is a minefield now. And actually I don't agree with the stereotyping going on here regarding class - both my husband and I have had some extremely unpleasant encounters with dogs and their middle-class owners, who when we've got our toddler grandson out for a walk or picnic with us, are running around completely out of control, off the lead and won't be recalled. Sometimes the owner may not even be in sight at the particular point they're bounding around, petrifying our grandson. If they are, they condescendingly say - oh, he/she's absolutely fine - well sorry we don't know your dog and as others have said they're level with our grandson's face. I mentioned this yesterday in a thread about someone who had rescued a dog from abroad and was concerned about it being aggressive. Because we live in a beautiful large wooded area, some parts of the forest are now no-go areas for us because of dogs running around in packs. We always had dogs as kids, a German pointer and my brother has had countless labradors and a golden retriever, so I never used to be anti dogs. But since the lockdown the world and his wife seem to have them and it's getting a nightmare. We have just as much right for a safe walk as they do. Some dog owners are so selfish and don't consider the impact their unruly dogs have on others.

@WetLookKnitwear

small children and any kind of dog aren’t a good mix.

100 correct.

How many more children need to die before the government brings in dog licences and bans breeds like staffies that seem to be involved in so many tragedies of this kind? It should be hard to buy a dog.

I feel terribly sorry for that little girl and of course for her parents. However, why the hell do people still insist on buying these types of dogs, despite stories like this? People assume it won’t happen to them but even big friendly dogs who’ve been in a family for 10 years have killed a child. It’s just not worth the risk. If I ever had another baby (I’m not) and I had a dog like that then I’m afraid it’d be getting its marching orders.

Agree! I hate hate hate seeing fbook pics of peoples babies or toddlers snuggled up next to dogs. I always think if that dog turns then that child has no chance. Don’t care how well people (think ) they know a pet, they are animals with instincts.

@Rewritethestars1

I didn't think people with young dc were allowed to adopt by most, if not all, rescues? I don't know the incident you are referring to so not sure if this was the case.

A lot of new” Rescues “ will sell to anyone.

The long established and reputable will not rehome to people with young DC

ANY dog that is capable of killing like this should be banned from being kept as a pet

@Nobodycarestakeitelsewhere

Always astounds me when people try and defend the dog breed on these threads. How many chihuahuas have killed children? There's no place in society for pitbulls. There's a terrifying new trend of breeding them bigger and stronger, and training them as "security" dogs. They're calling them American bullies and XL bullies. People should have to be licensed to own one. I can't actually see any good argument for having these dogs in society at all tbh. They don't serve any useful purpose and they're bloody dangerous.

And there's nothing wrong with putting down a biter. It's the only responsible thing to do. Although on Mumsnet you'll be demonised for doing so.

It astounds me why people like you never blame the person on the other end of the lead.

@Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase

How many more children need to die before the government brings in dog licences and bans breeds like staffies that seem to be involved in so many tragedies of this kind? It should be hard to buy a dog.

No matter what the government do, people will still get hold of them.

My DSis and her husband bought a puppy and got loads of nasty comments from people about not adopting. They have an 8yo ffs, and one person seriously recommended rescuing a street dog from abroad to get around the fact most UK based rescues won't rehome to a house with children.

The "adopt don't shop" rule is only for pets which could not seriously harm anyone (eg cats, tortoises, fish). And even with cats a lot of rescues won't let them go to homes with children.

I do not agree with this "expert". At all. I have been adopting adult dogs for more than 20 years and have adopted/fostered more than 30.
Would I place an adult rescue dog in a home with very young children? No. Would I leave a dog, any dog, regardless of breed or history, unsupervised with a young child, even for a minute? No. Do parents need to educate children far more on safe behaviour around dogs? Yes.
What has happened here is a tragedy, just awful and I feel dreadful for that little girl. But adult dogs, adopted from reputable rescues, have been assessed behaviourally prior to being homed. Some of course will require more experienced owners, but the vast majority are just...dogs. In the same way as they would if you bought a puppy, they might need training, but they are perfectly safe to be adopted by any responsible adult who will commit to learning and training (for both the dog and themselves).

These people will never learn.

I know where I think the blame lies.

@Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase

How many more children need to die before the government brings in dog licences and bans breeds like staffies that seem to be involved in so many tragedies of this kind? It should be hard to buy a dog.

So much ignorance

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/sentencing-remarks-of-mrs-justice-carr-r-v-susan-aucott-and-claire-riley/

Sorry, posted too soon.

@Nobodycarestakeitelsewhere

There's no place in society for pitbulls. There's a terrifying new trend of breeding them bigger and stronger, and training them as "security" dogs. They're calling them American bullies and XL bullies.

Do you work for the Daily Mail and just make this sort of stuff up?

An American Bulldog is the 'pedigree' equivalent of a Pitbull. Same dog with different paperwork. They've been around for many years. Slightly less common, but in use for many years, is labelling a Pitbull an Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier (a made-up name).

It doesn't help that like many other breed standards the Kennel Club version of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier has been getting smaller and slighter of stature, making normal SBTs look bigger by comparison. Or that the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a different (larger) breed to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier (although, to be fair, this distinction is better recognized in French BSL than anywhere else).

I'd challenge anyone that's calling for a ban on any of this type of breed to be able to identify the breeds they randomly mix up:

• Pitbull
• American Bulldog
• Staffordshire Terrier
• American Staffordshire Terrier
• Bull Terrier
• Bulldog
• French Bulldog

Or to name and identify the breeds they think are listed in the DDA without looking it up.

@Buildingthefuture

I do not agree with this "expert". At all. I have been adopting adult dogs for more than 20 years and have adopted/fostered more than 30. Would I place an adult rescue dog in a home with very young children? No. Would I leave a dog, any dog, regardless of breed or history, unsupervised with a young child, even for a minute? No. Do parents need to educate children far more on safe behaviour around dogs? Yes. What has happened here is a tragedy, just awful and I feel dreadful for that little girl. But adult dogs, adopted from reputable rescues, have been assessed behaviourally prior to being homed. Some of course will require more experienced owners, but the vast majority are just...dogs. In the same way as they would if you bought a puppy, they might need training, but they are perfectly safe to be adopted by any responsible adult who will commit to learning and training (for both the dog and themselves).

I find this confusing

On the one hand disagreeing with the OP

On the other hand saying you’d never leave any dog, any age, any breed alone with a young child. How is that remotely sustainable for any family?

"I have also seen dog attacks where multiple adults could not get a dog off another one."

When her mother's American Pit Bull killed 6-month-old Molly-Mae Wotherspoon, her grandmother was with her and tried to intervene but couldn't get the dog off. The judges sentencing remarks note that the grandmother had a drinking problem and had had some wine, but also that the dog had to be subdued with PAVA spray by the police because he was ferocious and totally out of control. Molly-Mae died at the scene from excessive blood loss. She had bite injuries to every limb, a fractured skull and puncture wounds to her brain. Essentially, her grandmother had to watch her being savagely mauled to death. The view that it's okay to have a strong dog as long as it isn't left alone with children is naive. The presence/supervision of an adult is clearly not enough to neutralise the risk.