Priority for wheelchair when with a buggy

[Hshuznw]

I’m just wondering what the etiquette is when you’re queuing for something and someone in a wheelchair arrives.

I was queuing to use a lift at a train station earlier today and a man in a wheelchair arrived to join the queue, which is what got me thinking. Do I keep my place in the queue, or let the wheelchair user go ahead?

I remember another incident when DS was an infant. I had been using the baby changing table at a coffee shop, which was in the disabled toilets. Whilst I was in there, someone kept trying to get in even though I kept shouting out it’s in use. I leave and there’s an elderly lady waiting to use the loo, with who I assume was her daughter giving me evils, and continued to give me stares until we left.

I’m not talking about priority for the wheelchair space on the bus, but priority in a queue to use a service.

But again, it's not obvious which parents with children are able to take the stairs. My little boy couldn't manage the stairs properly, even with help, and he won't even put a foot on an escalator.

Completely agree. I would not even have considered losing my place in a queue for a lift with my baby in his pram to let someone with a wheelchair go ahead. I don't see why there is any need for it. You can't just expect to skip ahead when other people who also need to use the service have waited their turn

@NameChangeCity123

I'm not sure if this is what you are suggesting, but its worth pointing out that I haven't seen a spate of wheelchairs users suggesting that they should have priority in a queue.

I think what is worth us all keeping in mind is that we don't know what other people are experiencing, even those with visual signs like a wheelchair or a buggy. Therefore I think the most important thing to consider is that if someone asks to go ahead, whether for a lift or for the toilet, if your need isn't urgent, perhaps allow them to do so. In my experience as a person with disabilities and as the parent of disabled children (none of us with wheelchairs or buggies), that isn't an easy thing to ask for, and I would hope anyone who did ask that was because they had a true need.

I was visiting IOM over Christmas. The ferry only has 1 lift to the passenger decks. The outbound journey was (mostly) problem free. However, the return journey, the bus carrying the "special assistance" passengers was one of the last vehicles onto the ferry. I was the last off the bus due to being in a wheelchair. I joined the queue for the lift. Everyone else on the bus (who were bragging about using it because "it's a free service to get us on the ferry and why should we walk onto the ferry when they provide a bus?" got in the lift ahead of me. No problem, I'll wait for it to come back down. The next time the door opened, the lift was full with a load of able bodied passengers including a couple with a dog. The alarms for the bay doors closing were going. "We'll send the lift back down" the people in the lift laughed as the lift doors closed.
Unfortunately, once the ferry moves off (which the alarms for the bay doors told me was imminent) the lift is not operational, and given it's a slow lift, it wouldn't have reached the deck I was on and got to the passenger deck in time. I had no choice but to use the stairs. Thankfully, there was a couple of people nipping back to their cars on that deck. One carried my wheelchair up the stairs for me while the other helped me shuffle up the stairs on my arse.
I did notice that I was the only passenger using the bus to get back off the ferry.
I get there's invisible disabilities and I don't expect to queue jump, but surely people need to use their common sense on a ferry that has 1 lift for 600 people and use the stairs? Especially when they can hear the bay door alarms and there's a wheelchair user waiting for that lift?

Yeah definitely in those circumstances EpicGem, that's awful

I'm a wheelchair user and I would insist you went first. Maybe if I was genuinely in a hurry/late for an appointment/needed to pee I'd maybe graciously accept the offer of asking if I wanted to go first. I suppose the polite thing to do would be ask the wheelchair user if they wanted to go first. Personally I'd be a bit embarrassed. Chances are you'll get someone patient like me who would insist you go first
Carrying a buggy and a small wriggly child and shopping up stair/escalator is not a great idea.

Ds is a wheelchair user. We would expect to wait our turn in this situation. We would especially like to wait in squeeze in situations as ds needs space. We want to be last in, facing the door and first out.

If it's the sort of situation where you can use an alternative means eg fold the buggy and walk upstairs then you should however if you can't it's first come first served. With using the baby change in the disabled loo I would try to let them go fast as they are likely to be quicker but if already in young finish when you can

@EpicGem

I was visiting IOM over Christmas. The ferry only has 1 lift to the passenger decks. The outbound journey was (mostly) problem free. However, the return journey, the bus carrying the "special assistance" passengers was one of the last vehicles onto the ferry. I was the last off the bus due to being in a wheelchair. I joined the queue for the lift. Everyone else on the bus (who were bragging about using it because "it's a free service to get us on the ferry and why should we walk onto the ferry when they provide a bus?" got in the lift ahead of me. No problem, I'll wait for it to come back down. The next time the door opened, the lift was full with a load of able bodied passengers including a couple with a dog. The alarms for the bay doors closing were going. "We'll send the lift back down" the people in the lift laughed as the lift doors closed. Unfortunately, once the ferry moves off (which the alarms for the bay doors told me was imminent) the lift is not operational, and given it's a slow lift, it wouldn't have reached the deck I was on and got to the passenger deck in time. I had no choice but to use the stairs. Thankfully, there was a couple of people nipping back to their cars on that deck. One carried my wheelchair up the stairs for me while the other helped me shuffle up the stairs on my arse. I did notice that I was the only passenger using the bus to get back off the ferry. I get there's invisible disabilities and I don't expect to queue jump, but surely people need to use their common sense on a ferry that has 1 lift for 600 people and use the stairs? Especially when they can hear the bay door alarms and there's a wheelchair user waiting for that lift?

But do you think that the other 599 passengers were aware that you'd be stranded and that there was a time limit?

I somehow doubt it.

And I also know that many people struggle to walk up the stairs on ferries for many reasons.

That situation, was, imo, the fault of the staff and ot ensuring that the passengers were safe.

@ChoiceMummy The last lot certainly were when they laughed and said they'd send the lift back down I told them that it stops working once the ferry moves off and that's pretty imminent given the bay door alarms are sounding. There's also signs in the lift stating that the lift does not work once the ferry is under way. They had the option of stairs, if not for 2 people returning to their cars on the car deck I was on, I wouldn't have had the option and would have been stranded on the car deck for the entire journey (which was almost 4 hours). There are limited staff on the car decks and at that point, they were making sure the bay doors were properly closed. They might have been able to delay the departure, but I couldn't exactly take that chance.
Great, an able bodied person "might" struggle with stairs on a ferry. What chance do you think I would have had to manage them with no help? Was I supposed to sit on one of the steps and chuck the wheelchair up and hope for the best? And, given how hilarious they found the situation, I doubt that was applicable to them.
I was fortunate to have 2 people who had nipped back to their cars. Another time I might not have been so lucky.
It's not on the staff to enforce common sense. That's the responsibility of the person who can see the signs saying the lift doesn't work once the ship moves off and that the departure is imminent and realise that the person in a wheelchair waiting patiently isn't going to have a chance of getting to the passenger decks before then.
Not that it matters, the whole experience has put me off using the ferry to the IOM again.

Baby change in disabled loo. I tend to leave door unlocked and if someone opens it I can say I'll be X minutes or hang on, let me do one baby and then you go and ill do the next after. Unless it was a really awful poo in which case I'd proceed, I can't think when my toddlers need a clean nappy more than someone needs to have a wee / poo / empty their bag.

Lifts I think is more complicated because they aren't a facility for people in wheelchairs, they're a facility for people who cannot use the stairs. If you have a brown leg on crutches, a buggy or use a wheelchair, you're all equally unable to use a lift. But DH and DS would then take the stairs if it meant the person in the wheelchair could also fit and I'd move up to let them

@PiesNotGuys

For lifts I think order of arrival is reasonable. There is no more likely to be urgency for any one group in that scenario. But it is true that parents have far more choice than most wheelchair users. As an example, I have claustrophobia. I have never used a lift with any of my 3 DC, because I have that choice. We always use the stairs, always without exception. If I were to become wheelchair bound I would not have that choice.

Toilets and buses are different.

Do you mean you would take a buggy anywhere where there were stairs or you haul the buggy up and down multiple flights? Cos I'm not sure my double buggy or my back would survive that. If we couldn't use the lift, my option would be not accessing that floor, not getting two newborns out on my own and carrying them and a double pram and bags up and down stairs.

[quote EpicGem]@ChoiceMummy The last lot certainly were when they laughed and said they'd send the lift back down I told them that it stops working once the ferry moves off and that's pretty imminent given the bay door alarms are sounding. There's also signs in the lift stating that the lift does not work once the ferry is under way. They had the option of stairs, if not for 2 people returning to their cars on the car deck I was on, I wouldn't have had the option and would have been stranded on the car deck for the entire journey (which was almost 4 hours). There are limited staff on the car decks and at that point, they were making sure the bay doors were properly closed. They might have been able to delay the departure, but I couldn't exactly take that chance.
Great, an able bodied person "might" struggle with stairs on a ferry. What chance do you think I would have had to manage them with no help? Was I supposed to sit on one of the steps and chuck the wheelchair up and hope for the best? And, given how hilarious they found the situation, I doubt that was applicable to them.
I was fortunate to have 2 people who had nipped back to their cars. Another time I might not have been so lucky.
It's not on the staff to enforce common sense. That's the responsibility of the person who can see the signs saying the lift doesn't work once the ship moves off and that the departure is imminent and realise that the person in a wheelchair waiting patiently isn't going to have a chance of getting to the passenger decks before then.
Not that it matters, the whole experience has put me off using the ferry to the IOM again.[/quote]
It sounds horrid. But I still say that this was a staffing issue. You're the consumer and they should be ensuring that the consumers are safe and away from vehicles.
I cannot imagine that there wasn't some override system. If there wasn't then it was down to the staff.
Those passengers may not have been thinking it through. And may genuinely have expected to have got to their floor and the lift down in time. Maybe not. But your safety is the responsibility of the captain and his crew ultimately.

Yes I agree - the passengers were thoughtless but that was the staff's fault for not making sure you got to where you needed to be on time.

The story about the pp with MS was appalling - what a horrible experience.

I often use a lift as I have a young baby (as well as older children) and aim also VI so navigating stairs can be a pain.

If I didn't need to get somewhere in a hurry I'd offer the wheelchair user to go ahead as they may very well be in a hurry.

@SleepingStandingUp

I’m certain there would have been situations when using the lift would have been faster or easier for me and my children yes, many, once abroad when staying in hotel room on the 23rd floor for example. When I broke my ankle for another. And in my pregnancies with SPD/PGP and the maternity services on the sixth floor. But the lift is not an option and never has been an option. So if I was out with my children I would always be transporting them in a way that meant we could use the stairs, that’s all really. In reality to get to buildings tall enough to need lifts, so over about 4-5 floors, I’d have to get a bus anyway, which were not accessible, so anything I took out I had to be able to carry, children and shopping included, regardless of lifts.

[quote AndAsIfByMagic]@MotherofAutism

It is called a wheelchair space on buses not a disabled space. So wheelchairs always have long fought for priority.

It's really sad that no other passenger was prepared to help you but the driver was doing his job.

Most buses have more than one wheelchair spaces these days. [/quote]
On our buses it's called an accessible space

It's not on the staff to enforce common sense. That's the responsibility of the person who can see the signs saying the lift doesn't work once the ship moves off and that the departure is imminent and realise that the person in a wheelchair waiting patiently isn't going to have a chance of getting to the passenger decks before then.

It absolutely us the responsibility of the staff. It's a matter of health and safety, there are reasons for no passengers to be on the car deck.

You really should raise this with the ferry company because it would be a simple fix to have a member of staff ensure you get into the lift first or loans you the lift keys.

Do people really fold up their babies' pushchairs and haul a pushchair, a baby and their bags up and down a narrow spiral staircase on the Tube when there is a perfectly functioning lift for those that need it?

I might let a person go ahead of me for the lift if I perceive that their need is greater than mine, but I certainly don't intend to martyr myself by not using a lift when I have a buggy and 5-month-old baby with me.

It was the same when I had a lot of luggage and travelled to Heathrow on the Piccadilly line. I availed myself of the lifts that were there for the purpose.

Things should be accessible for wheelchair users, but they shouldn't get priority over other people that need to use that facility just because they're not in a wheelchair.

Erm I sort of took the opinion that the wheelchair user was an adult so could be on their way to work or a work meeting whereas, when I was pushing a pram or buggy, I was on mat leave or on my day off and had nowhere important to be so I would let them ahead.

@EdgeOfACoin

Do people really fold up their babies' pushchairs and haul a pushchair, a baby and their bags up and down a narrow spiral staircase on the Tube when there is a perfectly functioning lift for those that need it?

I might let a person go ahead of me for the lift if I perceive that their need is greater than mine, but I certainly don't intend to martyr myself by not using a lift when I have a buggy and 5-month-old baby with me.

It was the same when I had a lot of luggage and travelled to Heathrow on the Piccadilly line. I availed myself of the lifts that were there for the purpose.

Not irl no. On Mumsnet? Yeah all the time!

@amylou8

Things should be accessible for wheelchair users, but they shouldn't get priority over other people that need to use that facility just because they're not in a wheelchair.

I bet any wheelchair user would love the option of using the stairs.

The DDA is unique in English law because it does allow discrimination in favour of the disabled person.

If you don't give priority then things are not accessible.

The DDA is unique in English law because it does allow discrimination in favour of the disabled person

The DDA doesn't exist - it's the Equality Act 2010. But what the Act doesn't always do very well is marry up competing protected characteristics (as we've seen with sex versus gender rights) or differing levels of the same characteristics. And it goes without saying that having a child and a buggy is not a disability.

But it shouldn't be a case of disability top trumps. The case above with the person in the wheelchair and the person with MS was appalling and the bus driver could and should have accommodated both if he hadn't been an arse (ditto the passengers who could have helped).