P&O Ferries - major announcement today. All ships in port

[cakeorwine]

Gosh. I wonder what's going on

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001

@liliainterfrutices

Thanks - that’s interesting. I still don’t get, though, why UK workers lost their jobs, while the French and Irish didn’t. Surely they’d all be under the same law?

Nope. That’s what happened with BA too. There were hardly any redundancies at Iberia (Spanish airline) and Lingus (Irish) etc that were under the same parent company as BA. Because they had much better workers rights we do than in the U.K. Despite BA being much more prosperous to IAG than the others.

P&O had to adhere to U.K. employment rules, despite being a foreign company. But they find ways to wriggle out - and it’s up to the government to tighten the loopholes, but they don’t.

As others have mentioned, British companies (and well known ones too) have been doing this for years prior to Brexit and I'm saying that as a complete remainder.

*remainer

prh47bridge thank you for that information.

They will then have factored in lawsuits and still calculated this is the cheapest way of doing things?

Am I right in thinking that, in legislative terms, nothing changed after BHS?

Btw I'm not ignoring replies but going to bed early

This is highly likely to result in me ranting about employment rights on here at 3am!

This has been going on for years. It has happened a few times in the company I work for. Usually the areas that are outsourced. The contract is put out for tender and a new company comes in and the next you thing you know people are forced to either leave or sign a new contract. It's never for better terms either. It's got bugger all to do with Brexit Whoever it was they need to pay attention, it's hardly a new thing but hey people losing their jobs is always a good opportunity to rub your hands in glee and bring up YOUR grievance at leaving the EU.

Ah, thanks honey. God I hope we see the back of the Tories in 2024.

@jessy100

For some very strange reason you are clearly delighted that 800 people have lost their jobs.

You are also convinced this has come about as a result of Brexit. Any chance you could enlighten the rest of us exactly why you think this?

They are up shit creek without a paddle.

Hundreds of redundancies and speculation of cheaper European staff to be employed.

Similar to BA a few years ago when staff were made redundant and staff employed on different contracts which was money saving exercise.

It may not be due to Brexit, but having left the EU weren't things supposed to be better for us? We weren't going to be hamstrung by EU laws? I thought the RMT union encouraged a Leave vote in the expectation that wages would be pushed up if it happened.

One thing we can be pretty sure of is that these agency workers won't be as well paid.

The way the Company has dealt with it stinks - getting rid of staff via Zoom - what a cowardly way to do it. Hiring a private security firm under a hush hush agreement, knowing that there was a good chance of trouble. A good firm doesn't need to do things in such a hole in corner fashion. But apart from people in Government being a bit cross about it, what will happen? The firm will get away with it.

People say they'll keep sailing with P&O coz it's cheaper, but not sure all these poor P&O customers who just got their trips cancelled with no notice feel the same.

It's not just abysmal treatment of their own employees, it's also abysmal customer service. Even from a purely selfish perspective, does it make sense to rely on the services of such an unreliable company?
And if P&O treats customers and employees alike so callously, can they be trusted on other fronts, e.g. basic safety? Or do they cut corners here as well?

A company willing to break the law just to optimise its own profit margin is fundamentally untrustworthy.

DP World clearly have no moral compass:

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8266035/P-O-owner-begs-150m-bailout-plans-investors-270m.html

In further news...

The P&O pension fund has a £146m deficit.

DP World spent £147m on a golf tournament.

DP World is owned by the Dubai Government.

DP World are investing $2bn in Russian ports

Oh, and no sanctions for Russia in Dubai.

Coincidence? I don't think so...

@EmmaH2022

prh47bridge thank you for that information.

They will then have factored in lawsuits and still calculated this is the cheapest way of doing things?

Am I right in thinking that, in legislative terms, nothing changed after BHS?

They appear to be offering enhanced compensation for redundancy which may head off lawsuits. But yes, I presume they think that going about things this way is cheaper than the alternatives. Of course, they may not have calculated the damage to their reputation and what this will do to their future business.

Whilst employment law is constantly evolving, I can't think of any significant relevant changes since BHS went under.

A particularly concerning aspect for those near retirement age is the £146 million deficit in the pension fund.

It is all a sorry state of affairs.

Is going to send ripples of concern through many UK employees.

@RobotValkyrie

People say they'll keep sailing with P&O coz it's cheaper, but not sure all these poor P&O customers who just got their trips cancelled with no notice feel the same.

It's not just abysmal treatment of their own employees, it's also abysmal customer service. Even from a purely selfish perspective, does it make sense to rely on the services of such an unreliable company?
And if P&O treats customers and employees alike so callously, can they be trusted on other fronts, e.g. basic safety? Or do they cut corners here as well?

A company willing to break the law just to optimise its own profit margin is fundamentally untrustworthy.

Herald of Free Enterprise?

They changed the name and repainted the ships, I believe they installed CCTV so the captain could see if the bow doors were open and they stopped a single employee from needing to be in two places at once.

Herald wasn't the only ship to sail with bow doors open, if they had been in Calais they may well have got away with it again.

I’d definitely be worried about safety. There’s obviously not going to be a thorough handover of either the ships,or the routes.

@QuebecBagnet

I’d definitely be worried about safety. There’s obviously not going to be a thorough handover of either the ships,or the routes.

This. From an entirely selfish point of view, the fact that the ships will now be staffed by the cheapest agence staff going inspires no confidence whatsoever in the safety of the ships.

Safe operations need committed operatives who know the vessels, routes and ports as well as possible. I don't want to be on a sinking ship while agency staff scratch their heads over what that funny noise means or how to launch the lifeboats!

Re safety. Absolutely. Imagine an air carrier doing this.

Well the safety of passengers and crew on ships out in deep waters matters too.

It’s extraordinary that the Government apparently had no inkling. Just … how?

Simple action is to suspend their licence until the company follows things such as statutory consultation on redundancies and a few other procedures. Government should end all contracts with them as well, if necessary by primary legislation.

The amount of money spent by UK tourists in Dubai also suggests that the government could be calling in their ambassador to express their disgust.

Simple action is to suspend their licence until the company follows things such as statutory consultation on redundancies and a few other procedures. Government should end all contracts with them as well, if necessary by primary legislation.

They obviously knew what this Government was like - that the Govt would express annoyance but not be inclined to do anything, so the Company knew it was worth trying to get away with it. How long do you think they were preparing for it? How much notice must the Employment Agencies and Security firm had to get people in place?

@UKRAINEwearewithyou

You ask *@cakeorwine* what is going on?

1. Covid over the last 2 years meant far less ferry trips than in a 'normal year'.

1. Inflation means less money for people to spend on future ferry trips.

1. The price of fuel has risen dramatically so the overheads are up.

1. Interest rates have risen again, so borrowing costs are up.

What to do? Reduce staff numbers which is a major costs and cut make the crossings that make less money.

You missed out Brexit

news.sky.com/story/the-reasons-why-po-ferries-has-taken-the-axe-to-its-workforce-again-12568561

"It would be a mistake, however, to say that all of the operator's problems stem from the pandemic.
Brexit has also clearly contributed to its difficulties.In the pre-pandemic and pre-Brexit period, P&O Ferries was carrying some two million units of freight per year, but that is understood to have fallen as trade in goods with the EU has fallen.

This will have affected the Hull-Rotterdam crossing in particular, and it is also understood that, with fewer Irish trucking firms using Great Britain as a "land bridge" to and from continental Europe, traffic on the Liverpool-Dublin crossing will have been hurt."

So, yes, it is another Brexit bonus.

If you were in a p&o cruise now would this affect you?
My mum had s I n the Caribbean and not contactable

No the cruise company is completely separate and owned by a different company to the ferries.

@jessy100

I know all about zeebrugge, and yes I was alive! fire and rehire has served this government well, and is largely supported by the great British public. Hypocrisy at it's finest!

Absolutely rubbish. It’s despicable attitudes like yours that led to the ferry disaster in the first place. Corners being cut so they could turn ferries around quicker just to keep prices rock bottom. I would far far rather pay more to ensure that something like that never happens again. If that meant I couldn’t afford to travel then so be it.