P&O Ferries - major announcement today. All ships in port

[cakeorwine]

Gosh. I wonder what's going on

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001

@jessy100

It's got everything to do with brexit! The denial and self delusion on here out s funny!!

Sorry if I am being dense

How is it to do with Brexit?

@Hawdyerwheesht

Brexit allowing less employee protections, the first of many such instances to occur

Maritime law was never a part of Brexit.

Clavinova "had undoubtedly breached employment laws but they had 'gamed it' by dismissing the employees and agreeing to pay the 'little bit of compensation' due"

So they've paid the compensation that might have been awarded in a consultation? At least if they have, it's a bit less dire than BHS? I just hope those staff have got something.

It doesn't have anything to do with Brexit but @jessy100 is ignoring that so they can try to start a bunfight and derail a discussion about hundreds of people losing their livelihood.

Having principles is turning out to be expensive ... Wanted to cancel P&O and use DFDS for return also, but it's costing almost double our outward journey price

And that's precisely why folk will continue to use P&O if it's still going
Jessy's post might not have gone down well, but at least they were honest about doing what so many will do, especially now money's tighter

Every time there's a scandal of some sort we hear "I'll boycott such-and-such", but attention spans are short, costs matter and somehow the companies survive when the focus moves quickly onto something else

Perhaps jessy100 means market impact due to Brexit, but has simply declined to say so? I'm sure jessy knows about retained EU law and maritime law as its explained on this thread.

Th number of travellers on ferries might have reduced due to Brexit, and not Covid perhaps? Less booze cruises, perhaps some people have sold their holiday homes due to only being able to stay for 3 months max at a time?

So they've paid the compensation

They have offered this -
As part of the process we are starting today, we are providing 800 seafarers with immediate severance notices and will be compensating them for this lack of advance notice with enhanced compensation packages.

No surprises that the present government blocked laws to make fire and re-hire illegal.

www.theguardian.com/law/2021/oct/22/anger-as-ministers-block-fire-and-rehire-bill-in-commons

Thank you Boris Johnson and your rancid crew.

@jessy100

It's got everything to do with brexit! The denial and self delusion on here out s funny!!

I say this as a remainer, if we have to use labels, but your level of comprehension @jessy100 does seem somewhat lacking. Blaming BREXIT for this is just letting P&O and it’s Emerati backers get away with reprehensible employment practices. Tesco and BA have done similar in the last few years, albeit they have rehired the existing staff on lower rates, and without offering enhanced redundancy. I suggest removing your blinkers - and using eurotunnel ;)

The number of travellers on ferries might have reduced due to Brexit, and not Covid perhaps?

I don't pretend to have the figures, but would have thought it would be the other way round

Granted they carry more than just leisure passengers, but there wasn't much point in planning a holiday when various countries were closed to us, and even when re-opened the hassle of tests and paperwork made it just not worth it for many

@Clavinova

So they've paid the compensation

They have offered this -
As part of the process we are starting today, we are providing 800 seafarers with immediate severance notices and will be compensating them for this lack of advance notice with enhanced compensation packages.

Ah, thanks.

When I've been made redundant, I have preferred the gardening leave option to working notice. Which I got out of by saying "if the post is gone, you don't need me to work notice".

It is Brexit in as much as there is reduced demand due to the custom checks and lesser cross channel trade.

Ships are not governed by the rules of the country where the owner is based. Ship owners get to "choose" who their ship belongs to. The majority of ships in the world are flagged to Panama - because they have lax labour, environmental and safety laws. The laws around the maritime industry is complex. Have a read about "Flags of convenience" which explains why companies register their ships in certain countries.

UK hasn't had a shipping industry for years as our laws are some of the strictest in the world which makes our shipping industry one of the most expensive in the world. I am proud that I have served onboard UK flagged ships and enjoyed amazing experiences. I feel very angry at what's happened but it's been coming for a while now.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

It is Brexit in as much as there is reduced demand due to the custom checks and lesser cross channel trade.

I would say there's lots going on.

Covid
Trade impacts due to Brexit

But people and good will always want to travel between the UK and the European mainland - be it by ferry or train. I hope we continue to have ferry companies and that we have a competitive market on cross Channel routes.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

It is Brexit in as much as there is reduced demand due to the custom checks and lesser cross channel trade.

That doesn't make firing people with fuck all notice legal. By all means blame maritime laws for this shit show. But no one could go anywhere for most of the last 2 years and that's not been Brexit related either.

This is heartbreaking. All those families, all those lives.

This country is a nightmare.

@SucculentChalice

Perhaps jessy100 means market impact due to Brexit, but has simply declined to say so? I'm sure jessy knows about retained EU law and maritime law as its explained on this thread.

Th number of travellers on ferries might have reduced due to Brexit, and not Covid perhaps? Less booze cruises, perhaps some people have sold their holiday homes due to only being able to stay for 3 months max at a time?

Yes all this! I thought it was obvious what I meant! Also, ireland now has more direct routes to France and are not so reliant on the UK ports.

That doesn't make firing people with fuck all notice legal.
By all means blame maritime laws for this shit show. But no one could go anywhere for most of the last 2 years and that's not been Brexit related either

Nobody is suggesting it does. Had we remained part of the single market and customs union, the company may not have felt the need to makes these changes as their previous business model would have remained viable. Possibly.

If it isn’t Brexit-related, how come UK workers are being fired, but not Irish or French? I’m genuinely curious rather than wanting confrontation. Not an expert in employment law.

@liliainterfrutices

If it isn’t Brexit-related, how come UK workers are being fired, but not Irish or French? I’m genuinely curious rather than wanting confrontation. Not an expert in employment law.

It’s not about the nationality of the employee but the law fheir employment contracts are under. Ie if they are under Cypriot law.

Thanks - that’s interesting. I still don’t get, though, why UK workers lost their jobs, while the French and Irish didn’t. Surely they’d all be under the same law?

@Neurodiversitydoctor

It is Brexit in as much as there is reduced demand due to the custom checks and lesser cross channel trade.

Clearly Covid has stopped people moving round but Brexit only affects those with second homes. Those of us who like a week in Nice, Paris, skiing or whatever are still going. And the wine (and cigarettes) are still half the price of the U.K.

cakeorwine
"Dubai-based DP World, which bought the ferry company for £322m in 2019."

I'm really grateful to you for mentioning that, I'd had no idea they were Dubai owned. I shan't set foot on one ever now, as I refuse to put money into the coffers of companies from Countries with terrible records of human and women's rights.

Setting aside the morality of replacing an entire workforce with a cheaper one to improve the bottom line.......what has stayed with me since the news broke is that senior management, board, HR etc actively planned tbis and STILL thought it was ok to tell everyone they were dismissed immediately BY ZOOM, without (as I understand it) the basic paperwork to say what people were getting in terms of compensation - surely the first and most critical piece of information you would need to know to be assured you and your family would be ok in the immediate future. Yet they had thought this through enough to anticipate and arrange security and handcuffs. Words fail me if this is correct. Most employees are pretty loyal and I cannot think of a worse kick in the teeth - that in one fell swoop makes many years of service so wholly unappreciated. Awful.

But still irrelevant as maritime law applies on ships based on where they are registered not where they work to/from.

For employment matters, as P&O Ferries is a UK company, UK employment law applies. This is still the same as EU employment law. Maritime law is a complete irrelevance for employment law matters.

P&O Ferries appear to have broken several laws. They have not consulted prior to making people redundant. They have not given the Business Secretary 45 days notice that they intended to make more than 100 people redundant. There may well be other breaches.

Fire and rehire legislation would not have made any difference to this situation. They are not rehiring the workers who have been sacked. They are hiring agency workers and saying that sacked staff could join the agencies.