P&O Ferries - major announcement today. All ships in port

[cakeorwine]

Gosh. I wonder what's going on

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001

@liliainterfrutices

Thanks - that’s interesting. I still don’t get, though, why UK workers lost their jobs, while the French and Irish didn’t. Surely they’d all be under the same law?

It's really confusing and I'm a lawyer, but not an employment lawyer. I'd love an explanation and am closely monitoring LinkedIn.

It's maybe because the employees are subject to the law of the flag of the ship, which some posters have stated is different for different routes. (I know nothing about maritime employment law!)

Or if the above isn't true but the employees are subject to English law, some people have suggested it's because French law gives workers additional rights to EU laws and one of these additional rights relates to fire and rehire not being legal in France. There was a recent attempt to introduce these protections in the UK but it didn't pass through parliament. Who'd have thought member states could still have some autonomy in the EU. 🙄 However, this isn't fire and rehire but fire and hire someone else.

I'm sure it'll become clear over the next few days.

In the meantime what an absolute clusterfuck and a race to the bottom. I've just handed in my notice (not related to this!) and only have a couple of weeks left. One of my employer's clients is DP Ports, I'm pleased to no longer be associated with them.

[quote jessy100]@WTFGG That's very magnanimous of you. Afraid I'm all out of sympathy for the idiots who voted to keep out the nasty foreigners stealing their jobs! Kind of ironic eh? most port towns voted for brexit![/quote]
No surprise there considering you don’t give a shit about a tragedy that killed hundreds. Don’t attempt to take the moral high ground. You don’t have a clue why some people voted to leave. Believe it or not some people voted for reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with immigration. Not that I expect a judgmental, ignorant person like yourself to see that. And no I didn’t vote to leave, I’m a remainer. I’m just not a horrible person.

I know someone this happened to, all staff from all over the uk, called to a meeting in the SE, they thought they were going to be told they business had been taken over. They were told they were all sacked with immediate effect and no one was allowed to take their company car home, security in the car park etc. Some have to go back to Scotland, Wales, etc by train, some staff still had car seats in the cars and personal items. Shocking way to be treated, especially the week before their annual bonus would have been paid.

@Roselilly36

I know someone this happened to, all staff from all over the uk, called to a meeting in the SE, they thought they were going to be told they business had been taken over. They were told they were all sacked with immediate effect and no one was allowed to take their company car home, security in the car park etc. Some have to go back to Scotland, Wales, etc by train, some staff still had car seats in the cars and personal items. Shocking way to be treated, especially the week before their annual bonus would have been paid.

That's awful!

Doesn't stopping people taking personal items out of cars count as theft by the Company? Not that it will do the individuals concerned much good.

@Bumtum126 ah I see, thank you

When my old company got rid of staff, it was (on a friday) "here is an enhanced pay off, today is your last day, company car laptop etc to be returned by Monday, noticed period to be paid off"
OR stick to your TnC's and lose the enhanced bit and you'll still lose your job.
This has happened in 3 different companies.

Been going on for years, though i don't know how P&O got round the 45 days consultation period.

I ve argued vociferously to remain in EU & would still like us to rejoin (esp as countries like India, African states have let us down but EU haven't) BUT employment law was always a eu member state thing and we had opt outs from some EU wide protections.

Brexit does mean though there is no ECJ route to justice but we all voted for this several times, so i don't get the outrage, esp from Boris.

The thing is, and the reason all the experts are saying this maybe Illegal and is not absolutely illegal, is because if P&O can prove that if they hadn’t taken this action in the way they did they’d have went bust immediately and employees would have got nothing,, then they maybe seen as acting correctly.

They were already making huge losses, with increased fuel pricing due to the Russian war, it could be that it tipped them into insolvency. This way they maybe able to save the company and employees can apply to work via a agency, however if they hadn’t taken it, then no one would have had a job.

I don’t know but this could have been do or die. P and O haven’t explained it, which doesn’t help, the dismissal video was cold and factual, he spoke about the heavy losses albeit briefly and the need to reduce costs.

I’m guessing due to the war and the increased fuel costs they just couldn’t continue to operate so they took this drastic action to try to save it.

@Orchidsonthetable Generous interpretation! Why didn't they go to the Govt for support? has the parent company got links to Russia?

Maybe we need to nationalise P&O ferries ? having vital supply infrastructure in the hands of despotic countries isn't a great idea, in fact its totally irresponsible.

@RivaLa

So much for Brexit, workers rights, jobs for the Brits, wage increases.....

Nothing to do with brexit.

When the steel works in Sheffield closed in 2006, we were told, all together in a conference centre with security guards and the exits to the plant locked off.

Production was moving to Finland, there was a law saying when a company bought a majority share in a UK company nothing major could be done for two years, three days after the two years were up it happened.

2000 people and with associated workers on site 3500 people.

So much for Brexit, workers rights, jobs for the Brits, wage increases.....

Nothing to do with brexit

We were promised things would improve post Brexit...... once again UK problems blamed on EU turns out not to be so.

Russian company owns 40% of DP World, who the fuck allows this to happen? Cross channel trade is vital to UK.

Nothing to do with brexit.

Maybe not, but we were told that the EU was the source of all our ills, so now we are out, this should not be happening. We should be leading the way in raising standards - outlawing the use of Agency staff instead of permanent employees for a starter. These are the sorts of things that I believe the Brexiters did vote for.

Of course this is an effect of brexit. Brexit effectively ended the booze cruise.

So what is happening with the other ferry operators? Are they in the same sort of trouble, after all Covid and Brexit has affected them too?

Herald of Free Enterprise?

That was Townsend Thoreson, not P&O.

Simple action is to suspend their licence until the company follows things such as statutory consultation on redundancies and a few other procedures.

No licence is required to operate ferries to or from UK ports. A licence is only required for ferries operating on inland waterways.

Government should end all contracts with them as well, if necessary by primary legislation.

That would require the government (i.e. us) to pay P&O Ferries substantial compensation. If we passed legislation to avoid that, the government would probably be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights, resulting in the courts ignoring the legislation and ordering the government to pay P&O Ferries substantial compensation plus their legal costs.

It’s extraordinary that the Government apparently had no inkling. Just … how?

The government does not spy on companies. P&O were required by law to notify the government 45 days before making these redundancies. It appears they did not do so.

Herald of Free Enterprise?

That was Townsend Thoreson, not P&O.

Townsend Thoreson was renamed P&O

@Peregrina

Nothing to do with brexit.

Maybe not, but we were told that the EU was the source of all our ills, so now we are out, this should not be happening. We should be leading the way in raising standards - outlawing the use of Agency staff instead of permanent employees for a starter. These are the sorts of things that I believe the Brexiters did vote for.

Outlawing the use of agency staff instead of permanent employees would destroy the business of anyone who works as a contractor and the livelihoods of anyone who wants the flexibility of working as agency staff. It is one of those things that sounds like a simple fix but really isn't.

I wonder if the 'offer' being made to staff, where they sign to agree it and agree to take no further action is how they are getting round any illegality

There are so many 'expert' views about this incident,some saying it is illegal and others saying it is, its impossible for me as a layman to work out whats going on or whether the staff have recourse to action.

I mean others saying it isnt illegal.

@prh47bridge P&O isn't any old company, its a vital means of transport of goods in and out of the UK.

a: Incredible the Govt were clueless, then again it probably isn't.

b: Shouldn't be sold off to despotic countries and then sold again to an adversary

c: Most of europe manages just fine without such a "Flexible" labour market.

@User76745333

Herald of Free Enterprise?

That was Townsend Thoreson, not P&O.

Townsend Thoreson was renamed P&O

To be precise, a month or two before Zeebrugge, P&O purchased European Ferries Group which was operating as Townsend Thoreson. They subsequently abandoned the Townsend Thoreson name and operated as P&O European Ferries.

Might have misheard but in the course of a R4 interview, the Minister/Secretary of State might have appeared to say the government heard 'only a little' (not the exact words) before the workers' video call.

Outlawing the use of agency staff instead of permanent employees would destroy the business of anyone who works as a contractor and the livelihoods of anyone who wants the flexibility of working as agency staff. It is one of those things that sounds like a simple fix but really isn't.

Maybe - but I have worked in places where agency staff and contractors were used far too often, when the real problem was that the management needed a kick up the backside.

BMW did the same with Rover as well.
Waited just long enough not to have to pay compensation then closed Rover. Having kept the already designed Mini (which not only brought their average emissions down) but kept Land Rovers technology sode as they’d used it to upgrade the x5.

The government do fuck all to protect employment rights in this country.