The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

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Following on...

@StormzyinaTCup

Exactly

I find it quite upsetting really that some parents out there are coming under MN attack because they have asked people not to talk about it to Five year olds.

There is a way to talk about such stuff to five year olds. maybe they want to control the narrative?

Unfortunately some parents for whatever reasons don't give a shit...at my DC school we've had 8 years old watching squid game's And playing violent computer game's, usually exposed by older careless siblings. Who knows what they see about this war,all sorts of brutality are over sm.

We just don't know why these parents Said that but whilst I wouldn't ask my DC not too talk I cant see what the big issue is with five year Olds.

Such vitriol!!

Why not sabe

Yelena Osipova therussianreader.com/2015/11/23/yelena-osipova-petersburg-artist-interview-protest-posters/

Interesting article from 2015 with pictures of her very powerful art.

@Jisforjelly

I know it's rework shocking, esp like now,we notice it more because we are playing such close attention to the media reports And the source.

But this is news, it's a job,a business.its what it does.

www.rfi.fr/en/starlink-will-not-block-russian-news-sources-musk

It is fascinating how much influence Elon Musk seems to have. Almost 77 million followers on Twitter vs eg United Nations 15 million

I do not think we should be cut off from Russian propaganda entirely, it helps us form our own opinions.

Adviser to Ukraine's Deputy Minister has just been interviewed on the BBC and has said (very diplomatically) that we, the West, aren't being strong enough. That with Putin, you have to fight fire with fire. He is already turning the sanctions into a 'declaration of war.' He is completely tunnel visioned. I don't even think he's 'mad' I think he is very clear minded about what he wants and will pay the price (with other people's lives).

Just been trying to catch up with these threads this afternoon. The situation in Mariupol is devastating - I thought siege was against international law/a war crime? Especially now it transpires that the ‘humanitarian corridor’ is being shelled.
A previous post about the ages of these soldiers/fighters also really resonated with me. I have an 18 year old DS and he’s here in the UK enjoying his last year of school, making plans for the future, whilst Russian and Ukrainian boys his age are thrust into this violent and terrifying conflict. It’s heartbreaking and I feel so powerless as an armchair supporter of Ukraine, sat comfortably in the west. We are really seeing the very worst of humanity.

Something else which maybe shows why she’s associated with the siege of Leningrad but might not have been there. I don’t think the picture has copied so here’s a link

therussianreader.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/osipova-siege-graffiti.jpg

The Siege of Leningrad 75 Years Later
osipova-siege graffiti

The inspiring Petersburg artist and political activist Yelena Osipova has drawn this graffiti to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the lifting of the Siege of Leningrad during the Second World War.

The piece is dedicated to her late friend Lenina Nikitina, another wonderful artist, who lived in the building on whose walls Osipova drew her work.

[quote countrygirl99]@Natsku what is the mood in Finland. My son is flying back to Tampere this afternoon after a few days home. We had a serious conversation at the beginning of the week about what to do if Putin were to carry out his threats and it was probably the lowest point of a year that has already been utterly crap for me personally.[/quote]
A bit worried I suppose would be the best way to describe it. Iodine pills are still sold out everywhere, a friend's colleague drove to a town a good distance away to get some before that pharmacy sold out. Talk in the news about the state of our civil defence shelters (lots are not in a good state as they are old and not been updated) and about who is responsible for what in an emergency. That said, was at the local ski race today and nobody was talking about this stuff (it was so nice to spend a couple of hours not thinking about the war)

Can't be easy for you, with your son being in Finland right now, but I do think most of the worry is just Finnish mentality, prepare for the worst, and don't forget history, but deep down knowing any trouble here is unlikely.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

Ukraine is also disseminating their own propaganda. They want NATO to get involved further and enforce a no fly zone, hence why they'll continue to depict escalation as an inevitability and tell us that the war can't be contained to Ukraine. We must continue to support them by supplying weapons and increasing sanctions, but we can't fall for this.

Cos they have no discipline or reliable communications

Ok that does make sense. Though not sure if that's more or less worrying than them having some wild plan to provoke NATO.

I am beginning to think clav is quite unwell.
Whilst i believe in all opinions being valid, the exact tone of all their posts for months now only ever serve to obsess over one thing and derail threads. I would strongly suggest ignoring all of them. It is the only way to keep a thread intact, whatever the beliefs of those on it.

Thanks @Natsku. I know any real trouble is unlikely but we've had a major crisis every week so far this year so I'm edgy. Christ knows how anyone with family in Ukraine is managing to sleep at all.

@Yeahthat no doubt and I can understand why they would do so. I guess I'm saying that I am concerned that Putin will escalate this war all by himself.

Natsku what do you buy? I just looked and it’s called sea kelp? Is there a measure you should know eg 300mcg etc

Out of interest!

@workisnotawolf

www.rfi.fr/en/starlink-will-not-block-russian-news-sources-musk

It is fascinating how much influence Elon Musk seems to have. Almost 77 million followers on Twitter vs eg United Nations 15 million

I do not think we should be cut off from Russian propaganda entirely, it helps us form our own opinions.

Of course not! Otherwise both sides are guilty of censorship and propaganda.

Unfortunately the rules of war are not as clear cut as some seem to think, there’s wriggle room..here are a couple of relevant texts.

Re sieges:

reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/sieges_legal_note_-final-_en_1.pdf

Re Nuclear Power Facilities:

ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v2_rul_rule42

In reality I doubt your average conscript is up to speed on any of the above..

And in response to Yeahthat’s comment about propaganda, it would be reasonable to take everything issued from the Russians with a pinch of salt. It would however be naive to assume that only the Russians are indulging in that particular game.

Both sides are going to try to sway public opinion.

@CallyfromBlakes7

does such abuse of women happen in all wars

not sure it happened on the Western front in WW2 other than few bad eggs (it is worth noting than when a young woman was raped in the Channel Islands by an occupying German soldier he was shot) but it has certainly happened in the war between Sudan and South Sudan, and obviously ISIS have used it as a weapon of war. Quite possibly in Yugoslavia as well but I don't know enough about it.

Of course rape occurred on the Western front in WWII, including by UK and US servicemen. Sexual violence happens in all wars and being the "good guys" sadly doesn't change that.

@countrygirl99

Thanks *@Natsku*. I know any real trouble is unlikely but we've had a major crisis every week so far this year so I'm edgy. Christ knows how anyone with family in Ukraine is managing to sleep at all.

They must be out of their minds with worry :( A friend's brother was in Ukraine and he was very worried until his brother sent word that he and his family were safely out.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

Adviser to Ukraine's Deputy Minister has just been interviewed on the BBC and has said (very diplomatically) that we, the West, aren't being strong enough. That with Putin, you have to fight fire with fire. He is already turning the sanctions into a 'declaration of war.' He is completely tunnel visioned. I don't even think he's 'mad' I think he is very clear minded about what he wants and will pay the price (with other people's lives).

I don’t think he’s mad, we’ve seen expansionism with similar aggression before, did people say Hitler had ‘gone mad’ no idea, but I think he thinks he’s in the right and clear minded as you say.

But I also agree with pp we still shouldn’t fight on the ground / in air in Ukraine

@MarshaBradyo

Natsku what do you buy? I just looked and it’s called sea kelp? Is there a measure you should know eg 300mcg etc

Out of interest!

A Finnish pharmaceuticals company produces iodine pills, called Jodix. Adult dose is 130mg. I'm going to buy some when they get back in stock because we're actually supposed to always have them at home (I found a whole list of things we're supposed to keep at home, to be sufficient for 72 hours in an emergency)

This is just awful...

Russian forces have seized a psychiatric hospital with 670 people inside in the town of Borodyanka in Ukraine’s Kyiv region, the regional governor Oleksiy Kuleba has said.

"Today we do not understand how to evacuate these people, how to help them,” Kuleba said. “They are running out of water and medicines,” Kuleba said. “These are people with certain special needs, they need constant help ... many of them have been bedridden for years.”

Yikes

@CallyfromBlakes7 rape was one of the 'weapons' of war in the Kosovo conflict

[quote Yeahthat]@Hillsmakeyoustrong

Ukraine is also disseminating their own propaganda. They want NATO to get involved further and enforce a no fly zone, hence why they'll continue to depict escalation as an inevitability and tell us that the war can't be contained to Ukraine. We must continue to support them by supplying weapons and increasing sanctions, but we can't fall for this.[/quote]
Yes I agree. It is understandable though, they are in such a desperate plight and it is hard to go against them on this and not feel like a heartless bastard. In my not very informed opinion, it would be playing into Putin's hands if we escalated.

There are no good options. All of them involve death and suffering.

Terrible things happened during the Second World War all over, but not everyone seems to be holding a grudge. Some Polish friends who are helping immensely right now with Ukrainian refugees sent me this link:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

It was to illustrate that despite what had happened in the past they love and welcome Ukrainians. I had never heard of this “genocide”/ethnic cleansing but it sounds pretty horrific.