The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

Reuters

Microsoft suspends product sales and services in Russia reut.rs/3ChLBXU

BBC temporarily suspending all activities of its journalists within Russia due to the new laws about 'false information.'

The only way to have prevented this is to have not been European, liberal, democratic, and generally civilised.

Otherwise it was inevitable.

It may or may not be of any import whatsoever, but when I say "European", it's really shorthand for descended from the Roman Empire which excludes Russia.

Balkan insight @balkaninsight
Serbia is ready to offer Ukrainian refugees "the best possible conditions and hotel accommodation, as well as all rights to residence and work permits", Serbian president Aleksandar Vucic told Ukrainian Ambassador in Serbia.

Interesting.

@RedToothBrush

Balkan insight *@balkaninsight* Serbia is ready to offer Ukrainian refugees "the best possible conditions and hotel accommodation, as well as all rights to residence and work permits", Serbian president Aleksandar Vucic told Ukrainian Ambassador in Serbia.

Interesting.

Not an idea they got from the UK.

@yoolia

Christ's sake. I'm as gender critical as they come but is there NOTHING that MN cannot relate to the trans issue?!?!

I think that there is a core group of posters on these threads are the rad fems from the Feminist boards, though that is an assumption, I haven't asked them. Their anti Putin feeling is about the war Ukraine obviously but it also preceded the war and is related to how Putin has treated lesbians in years gone by, which is why when people post about wider issues they are seen as "Putin apologists" rather than just people raising wider issues. I might be wrong though.

@MarshaBradyo

My interest is if/how this could have been prevented

Yeahthat I understand that interest, over the last few days I think there’s not many actions that would have prevented it apart from maybe Ukraine joining NATO… But then given this was his main fear maybe he would have gone crazy at that point and just brought it forward. And they were not ready to join according to few things I’ve read.

He’s on a mission and I don’t think not doing this or that would have changed it - look at his actions, they are intense and driven. He will up the ante until he gets Ukraine or as close as possible

Ukranians saying that they believe negotiations to be genuine. In other words, crippling sanctions that have decimated the Russian economy, international pariah status, combined with the prospect of an unwinnable war against an insurgency has brought them to the negotiating table. If the same resolve had been show in 2014, would it have altered his calculations? Instead of light sanctions and ability to turn of Europe's energy supply on tap. Leaving the NATO issue to one side (it's been discussed enough on here).

Telephone poll of 1,040 adults in Ukraine, 1-3 March 2022, weighted to be nationally representative.

(lordashcroftpolls.com/2022/03/ukrainians-want-to-stay-and-fight-but-dont-see-russian-people-as-the-enemy-a-remarkable-poll-from-kyiv/#more-16700)

"Do you think each of the following are doing enough or not enough to help Ukraine?"

• NATO: 23% enough, 65% not enough, net -42

• The EU: 46% enough, 45% not enough, net +1

• The United States: 44% enough, 49% not enough, net -5

• The United Kingdom: 53% enough, 35% not enough, net +18

DH stunned me last night. He upfront told me he wishes the UK and the US would go to war with Russia and start a WW3 to sort them all out.

As scary as the idea is, I'm even more scared that I somewhat agree!!!

[quote DuncinToffee]Reuters

Microsoft suspends product sales and services in Russia reut.rs/3ChLBXU[/quote]
That's going to have an effect. Good.

@EsmaCannonball

BBC temporarily suspending all activities of its journalists within Russia due to the new laws about 'false information.'

Statement here twitter.com/bbcpress/status/1499777716538720262?s=21

Market Sentiment@mkt_sentiment🚨Breaking🚨
State of Kentucky's Teachers Retirement System was the second-largest shareholder for Sberbank of Russia (The largest bank in Russia).

Their position dropped 95% in value from $13MM to $778K

Oops.

@EsmaCannonball

BBC temporarily suspending all activities of its journalists within Russia due to the new laws about 'false information.'

Have to. No choice. 15 years in jail.

@Peregrina

How could it have been prevented?

Taking Putin much more seriously - not allowing oligarchs to launder money through Londongrad, taking interference in elections more seriously.

But this did not suit our Government, who are now desperately trying to pretend that they are trying to find a solution, when in practice, they haven't got a clue.

Yes, it seems our leaders are only capable of reacting to events, and only after they become impossible to hide or pretend that they don't exist.

On the subject of Kentucky....

www.politico.eu/article/mccain-rand-paul-is-now-working-for-vladimir-putin/ From 2017
Sen. John McCain on Wednesday accused fellow Sen. Rand Paul of doing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s bidding after Paul blocked an attempt to vote on a treaty for NATO membership for Montenegro.

“The senator from Kentucky is now working for Vladimir Putin,” McCain bluntly said of Paul on the Senate floor following the dust-up.

The Arizona Republican, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, was joined on the Senate floor by Democrats Ben Cardin of Maryland and Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire to push for debate and a vote on the treaty. But Paul, who has opposed further expansion of NATO, objected to McCain’s request to consider the measure.

This might get revisited I think.

Yes, it seems our leaders are only capable of reacting to events, and only after they become impossible to hide or pretend that they don't exist.

We switched as a society from being pro-active to reactive some decades ago.

Its shown up in our inability to deal with every single crisis in at least 30 years.

Ukranians saying that they believe negotiations to be genuine. In other words, crippling sanctions that have decimated the Russian economy, international pariah status, combined with the prospect of an unwinnable war against an insurgency has brought them to the negotiating table. If the same resolve had been show in 2014, would it have altered his calculations?

If your first line turns out to be the case then I’ll be very relieved, but I’m a bit wary since shelling is increasing with sanctions and negotiations already in place. What we’ve put in place is huge and world reaching and proportionate, to have any bite they tend to hurt us as well as the country you are placing them on - so you need to take the populations with you. We’re all broadly in agreement that we’re ready to take this hit to slow Putin down due to the extreme nature of his aggression and impact on Ukrainians. In 2014 not sure the same

Too busy being Woke and faffing about Trans rights.
Completely being complacent and taking eye off the ball. Fiddling while Rome burns.

I think you're right. I think every defence and foreign policy meeting for the last 8 years they must have been sitting around talking about trans rights instead of defence and foreign policy.

Seriously. Blaming the war on trans people.

Interestingly, the podcast I mentioned earlier in the thread mentioned that 20-odd years ago Putin was making quiet noises about joining NATO/entering a partnership.

What happened to those discussions I do not know, whether he was ignored or was just taking the West’s temperature?

@BeOne

After some really helpful links on the previous thread I've been reading up about Transnistria. From what I can gather they are fairly Russia leaning. Does anyone know what the general sentiment is there? If the Russian army was to turn up and declare it Russian territory is that something the general populous would find agreeable or would they be met with resistance like in Ukraine?

Yes, they would. They are very pro Russia, a lot have Russian citizenship and watch Russian media. My dad is from there, they are completely brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

Pro Russian Conservative party lobby group is being disbanded.

The “Westminster Russian forum”, previously “Conservative friends of Russia” which lobbied for pro Russia funding for cash for Conservative MPs & party operations is being wound up.

That will upset Putin

DH stunned me last night. He upfront told me he wishes the UK and the US would go to war with Russia and start a WW3 to sort them all out

Is he in the armed forces? Would he be the one fighting?

@CowboyJo ready for a nuclear Holocaust then?

@CowboyJo do you honestly think we'd "sort them all out"? My DH takes this view too. I think we have way too much faith in the 'great' UK and US vs what Putin under pressure might do.

@CowboyJo

I'll ask you the same questions I asked someone else on here:

If you want to simply "Do Something" regardless of the results (the possible annihilation of all of humanity in a nuclear war), then why aren't you prepared to join Ukraine's Foreign Legion? I guess because when you actually have to make the same calculation for yourself personally that NATO leaders are now making on behalf of all of the human race, the reality of the decision becomes patent. You're not willing to risk your own destruction, for something that may have no material benefit either to Ukraine or the wider world.

Secondly, since human rights are a central issue here - if you're willing to risk the survival of all of humanity on your bet on the reaction of an unhinged dictator, then how about people from South America, Africa, Asia etc that may have an entirely different view? How about people here that have a different view?

If a hardliner within NATO were prepared to possibly escalate a conflict between two countries into a global, nuclear war, does anyone else get a say in that?

I don't know how anyone rational can want to escalate this conflict. It's telling that no NATO member sees this as a desirable option either.