The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

This is a classic “refuelling” flight path. The tanker flies a “racetrack” pattern so the jet can slit in behind and refuel.

@Peregrina

She said nobody over 70 should have had a vote on it. The vote would have done the other way.

I am not entirely sure that is the case. My then 93 year old MIL voted Remain. One of those people who was actively involved in the War effort although avoided the call up because she was married by the time they got round to her.

I agree, all the over eighties who I know, and most of the over seventies, voted remain, including my 86 year old MIL and her siblings.

@CoastalWave

Its' 25 pages, no I haven't read all of the thread.

Can I just ask - has anyone else heard some of the foreign media outlets reporting that it was actually the Ukrainians who hit the nuclear place, not the Russians?

I'm trying to find a source.

I have not seen that reported anywhere. All reputable news outlets are saying that Russians hit the buildings around the nuclear plant when fighting to take it, and that some of their attacks started fires.

@theDudesmummy

Anyone here like watching planes on Flightradar? I wonder what you make of two NATO Airbus 330s (ie big planes) spending most of yesterday and already several hours today, flying round and round in the same spot, in circles together over western/central Poland? What could they be doing? Just interested if anyone knows. Looking or listening for something? But why such big planes then? (This is not supposed to be any alarmist type of post, I was just interested as they are basically right over my DDs head and so I noticed them).

They are tankers..(by the sounds of it RAF A330 “Voyagers”)…they are in position to air to air refuel the fighter aircraft that are patrolling on the NATO side of the border…FWIW you can’t see the fighters themselves,on Flight radar they have made themselves invisible to the tracking sites.

What I think is interesting about the flights is that they are all avoiding a massive section of Russia to the side of Ukraine as well as Ukraine itself. I think they are flying wider to the east than they are to the south over the southern Black Sea.

The source was Kremlin 🙄

No I don't know of a Flightradar thread, hence asking my question here.

@MistySkiesAfterRain

A reporter went with them, its on BBC front page, if the same ones. They are radar planes to monitor what Russian planes are doing, where they are etc. They look like offices inside the planes with computers.

The A330s don’t do monitoring , that’s done by things like E-3A AWACS and EC-135 and a myriad other flights.

Following.

@valerianaofficiana yes I suspect that too.

The New York Times have a detailed article about the attack and takeover of the nuclear plant. They also say that there are no changes to radiation detected.

www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/world/europe/nuclear-plant-fire-zaporizhzhia-video.html

Thank you for these threads. Like others I continue to feel extremely uneasy. The situation is so very volatile and the whole thing a dystopian nightmare.

Add in an unstable leader modelling himself on an historical tyrant, impossibly high stakes with the potential involvement of nuclear capability, together with Russian propaganda weaponised on social media and the whole thing looks very dark indeed to me.

Who is to say Putin will not try to provoke NATO retaliation?

The UK promised to double the number of troops in Estonia in the middle of February. Now we have done as we promised.
www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-will-double-number-troops-estonia-part-nato-mission-2022-02-16/

Thanks Pestor

Who is to say Putin will not try to provoke NATO retaliation?

He already has, several times over the last decade and before.

@Words have faith, NATO is well aware of that possibility, clear heads will prevail. Article 5 of course will be acted upon and with absolute conviction.

@CallyfromBlakes7

What I think is interesting about the flights is that they are all avoiding a massive section of Russia to the side of Ukraine as well as Ukraine itself. I think they are flying wider to the east than they are to the south over the southern Black Sea.

Are you referring to the civilian traffic or military?

From the civilian POV very few airlines are going to risk (or be allowed) to operate over Russia, Belarus and (obviously) Ukraine ATM, so pretty much everything going between Europe and the east is squeezed into the airspace over Turkey and further south.

.

@theDudesmummy

Anyone here like watching planes on Flightradar? I wonder what you make of two NATO Airbus 330s (ie big planes) spending most of yesterday and already several hours today, flying round and round in the same spot, in circles together over western/central Poland? What could they be doing? Just interested if anyone knows. Looking or listening for something? But why such big planes then? (This is not supposed to be any alarmist type of post, I was just interested as they are basically right over my DDs head and so I noticed them).

Mid-air refuelling

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A330_MRTT

@theDudesmummy

Anyone here like watching planes on Flightradar? I wonder what you make of two NATO Airbus 330s (ie big planes) spending most of yesterday and already several hours today, flying round and round in the same spot, in circles together over western/central Poland? What could they be doing? Just interested if anyone knows. Looking or listening for something? But why such big planes then? (This is not supposed to be any alarmist type of post, I was just interested as they are basically right over my DDs head and so I noticed them).

No idea @theDudesmummy unusual flight pattern.

It's Russian planes I am talking about. They are leaving a massive gap over Russia as well as Ukraine and Belarus unless they are actually flying to places in that area such as Volgograd.

@yoolia

Who is to say Putin will not try to provoke NATO retaliation?

He already has, several times over the last decade and before.

Agree. Which is part of the reason, he feels he could make such an audious move in the first place.

The West are hampered by domestic concerns and very genuine fear of what doing more will unleash.

Putin certainly is prepared to use nukes. There is no doubt in my mind. Putin has to have military unity and support to do this though. The cavet is a little too weak for my liking though.

I can recommend the City of Sanctuary UK website for ideas on what we can all do to help the people of Ukraine, links to Ukraine-based journalism, how to talk to children about the invasion and so on.

I also saw something similar about buying digital art from Ukrainian sellers on Etsy a few days ago. Although by this point they might not even be able to deliver that, depending on where they are in Ukraine, so whether that means the transaction would no longer be processed I don't know. (I'm not suggesting they should have to deliver, only that it might affect them being able to collect payment, I dunno?)

I've done this today - the digital art is on automatic download after payment, so the work is delivered and the payment goes through without any action on the seller's part. I understand the risks and limitations of doing it, but it's another way of getting funds to someone directly affected. The woman replied to thank me.

So those planes are refuelers.
NATO is definitely taking the situation seriously as these two planes are B52s
twitter.com/CivMilAir/status/1499737137876512775

I guess we are going to see extensive deployments to Eastern Europe, as there is a threat there.

@CallyfromBlakes7

Picking up on dreamingbohemians point - why are we all so beholden to the 70 plus generation?Does the ageing of populations in the West due to modern medicine actually also have a general retro affect on our ideologies and progress? Because they tend to hold voting and asset power? It shouldn’t really be like that. The future belongs to the young

My mum (who is 83 next month) said this about the Brexit referendum. She said nobody over 70 should have had a vote on it. The vote would have done the other way. Although if that had been the case for the Scottish referendum, the vote would have gone the other way as well and we probably wouldn't have had the Brexit referendum in the first place.

What do you want to do with the over 70s, then? Shoot them all or just take away their right to vote. HOW DARE YOU? The future belongs to everyone who is still alive.