The Invasion Has Stalled

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So here we go. Four days in and the third consecutive thread on the conflict in Ukraine. The last two threads are a credit to the members of mumsnet. Who knows where thread four may find our world?

Thank you all.

Thread two : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4491025-The-Invasion-Continues

Also my sympathies to the Russian people being lied to and dictated to by terror, with economic isolation and very uncertain prospects for any swift change in leadership, or realistic hopes for democracy or peace.

Belarus is under Russian control holding the talks there will give the Russians the upper hand or so they think only

the morning will come' will stay with me for a long time

It brings tears to my eyes too.

@NobodysGonnaKnow what struck me was Zelenskiy's skill in what you might call 'moral mobilising'. Who in the last 5 days is going to risk Zelenskiy tweeting that they wouldn't take his call or wouldn't do what he asked? He might not choose to do that, but he could.

@Scraggythang . I'm having the same problem it's all hours behind.

This is a discussion for after this catastrophic phase has passed, but this situation is a reminder of why we all have to be extremely alert to corruption and anti-democratic tendencies in all of our political leaders, wherever we live. This is why (for instance) Boris Johnson repeating that disproved smear about Starmer ‘not prosecuting Savile when he could have done’, all the lockdown parties, or all the apparent obfuscation about finances and home decorators and whatever is so serious. Boris Johnson only being the latest example. It’s all corruption and insidiously anti-democratic and very scary to see when you’re an ordinary person, because of where it can ultimately lead. That’s an entirely non party political point applicable to whoever’s in power.

I find the convergence of the Brexit outcome with Putin’s interests and ambitions interesting and depressing I hadn’t really been aware of that before.

Yes Keep. The Guardian story about Natalya and her premature baby Mia, sheltering from the shelling in a hospital basement in Kyiv had the same effect on me. She can't see her husband so must feel absolutely alone.
It's the small stories and experiences of real people that make it relatable (for me anyway) and so heart breaking.

[quote eurochick]@LunaTheCat absolutely. Russia wanted a weaker EU and Brexit was a significant win for him. Look at what his Brexit stooges have been posting about the recent war. [/quote]
What are you referring to do you mean on mn or on SM in general?

what struck me was Zelenskiy's skill in what you might call 'moral mobilising'. Who in the last 5 days is going to risk Zelenskiy tweeting that they wouldn't take his call or wouldn't do what he asked?

He is playing this with knobs on. What a clever, astute man he is proving to be. History will point to this as a turning point in how conflict is managed in the world, I am sure.

I wonder what would have happened to Ukraine had they not had such a courageous and inspiring leader at time of crisis? Mr Zelenskiy was able to lean in and really connect with everyone in the world over and over again through social media. He is an icon now - whatever happens.

@MarshaBradyo I was referring to tweets from Farage and Aaron Banks. I posted screenshots but maybe you can't see them due to an MN glitch.

@LacasadeBernadaAlba

what struck me was Zelenskiy's skill in what you might call 'moral mobilising'. Who in the last 5 days is going to risk Zelenskiy tweeting that they wouldn't take his call or wouldn't do what he asked?

He is playing this with knobs on. What a clever, astute man he is proving to be. History will point to this as a turning point in how conflict is managed in the world, I am sure.

I find how he uses twitter and social media in general being used interesting. Obviously their must be it being used negatively I'm assuming with disinformation , also anonymous and 'cyber war'

rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/ukraine-through-russias-eyes
Why you should remain dubious of what polling says, and not apply what you want to hear to it.

This also shows just how important Zelensky's role has been.

I am nervous this morning. Talks are a shame, but Zelensky aware he has to play ball because of optics of not showing.

Calm before the storm moment for me.

The strato tankers have been in Romania since it began.
I caught the us stealth bomber the other Day right next to it.

Not anonymous using it negatively I mean I also find that interesting

[quote eurochick]@MarshaBradyo I was referring to tweets from Farage and Aaron Banks. I posted screenshots but maybe you can't see them due to an MN glitch. [/quote]
Certainly a few uturn going on amongst those previously very pro russia.

See Le Pen... Even Trumps at it.

I hope this isn’t hopelessly naive but it makes me a bit hopeful to see moral leadership with postwar values of solidarity and humanitarian policymaking (and the public appetite for it) coming back into international politics. I really really hope that it lasts and builds.

@ChimChimeny

Surely it can't be a trap????

I think the talks are a trap to be honest . I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I am so worried these 'talks' are a trap, too. I am sure Zelensky is aware of this, he's a very brave man. I have only admiration for him and how he's leading Ukraine right now.

Thank you for this thread. I’m still anxious and scared but not nearly as much as I was at the end of last week.

Whilst I do worry the Russians would try anything I suspect that Zelensky is well briefed and that any intelligence about a possible trap would be relayed.

Putin must look reasonable to his people and make Zelensky look bad.

So he must offer something (even if its a gun to the head saying surrender or we nuke you) and Zelensky must be seen to be unreasonable somehow (unwilling to compromise)

The 'offer of peace' give to Zelensky will differ to the one Putin tells Russia he has offered.

Zelensky knows this. He knows its a big fat waste of time. But the optics of not turning up are worse.

He also knows that many Russians don't believe Putin are are looking at media sources outside Russia too.

Thank you for the report red it made for very interesting reading. A transitional country and a new democracy would always have this expected profile, but it appears Putin has not even been able to rely on many of the Russian speaking Ukrainians for support, it has been a gamble that has backfired even best case for Russia now.

Checking in.

Putin could murder Zelensky. But he doesn't look reasonable to his own doing it so openly.

Not necessarily in Putins interests.

Optics for Zelensky is once again, leading by example whilst Putin hides away in his lair.