If you are Russian what is your opinion on Ukraine situation and Russia stance?

[Bohemianwannabe]

As above

@otille

You have asked a valid question twice and nobody is answering:

How come there were no sanctions on all Brits and Americans when they illegally invaded Iraq?

This is a very good question and people really should think about it. The answer is that when the Brits and Americans go in it's always to 'save' a country with good intentions (not). I think the hypocrisy should be visible a mile off to anybody intelligent with a conscience.

Many (if not all) of the West's military actions in recent decades have been wrong. BUT does that justify Putin's actions? No, of course not.

Putin has invaded a sovereign country and is causing huge amounts of suffering. His actions will reverberate and cause ever more suffering and destruction for the forseeable future. Can't you just come out and say that? Why deflect by talking about a completely different war?

@mamaumki I am so sorry. Please don't think we all hate Russians. I hate the Russian regime and what they are doing both to the Ukrainians and many of their own people but I can see many individual Russians suffering.

DS is in year 5 and there are is a Russian boys. He came home upset easier.in the week saying "x says his parents have said he can't be friends with Y anymore and I shouldn't be either" Y needless to say is Russian..Ive told him I don't have any problem with his choice of friends and to ignore X. I've also spoken to head teacher.. I dont think for one moment poor Y or his parents are responsible for Putin and his henchmen . Horrible. Im so sorry your son is being mistreated to

@Woollystockings

I am not Russian but I know/knew quite a few Russians in the U.K or west Europe. All ordinary people with ordinary jobs. No oligarchs. All have been historically Putin supporters -or were. With the latest news, some still support him, some don’t.

Also my experience.

Quite a few Russians living locally. One woman (40-ish, educated) got quite huffy and said, “there are two sides to every story”, implying she was in favour of the war - or at least, was not against it.

It would be nice to believe that only old, ignorant or ill-educated Russians endorse Putin’s actions, because it supports the Western narrative, but the reality is much more nuanced.

When those Russians living in the West, who enjoy the freedoms and privileges of democracy, and have access to social media and ‘truthful’ reporting still choose to justify the invasion, it demonstrates the complexity of the situation.

Fake news and the manipulation of truth plays its part on both sides of the propaganda war. We’re led to believe that every Russian would be against the invasion if only they weren’t being brainwashed by disinformation; that if only the scales would fall from their eyes, they’d all realise that Russia is in the wrong and Putin is a war criminal. But I really don’t believe that’s the case at all.

I imagine Putin does have reasonably genuine support in Russia.

But how can anyone tell unless they are allowed to " vote"!!

That's the bottom line.

Have Russian's ever had a proper taste of democratic freedoms?

If you want a flavour of what Russians are being told try reading the English language Pravda ( Truth) website Also rt.com. Hunt down Israeli media and look at Al Jeezera. Build your view from a variety of sources all the time keeping bias and propaganda in mind.

@MamaUmki

I consider myself Russian, though I lived most of my adult life in the UK. I have a Ukraininan maiden name, my Mum grew up in Donbass, and speaks fluent Ukrainian. My great grandparents died during Holodomor. I have Ukrainian genes on both sides of my family. We still have relatives in Donbass, though right now I don't know if they're alive. They have lived under bombs for over eight years now, hiding in the cellar, going out at night to get some water from the well. My distant cousin's younger child is the same age as mine. The things she told me were totally hair-raising. I'm absolutely devastated by the war. My elderly mother lives in Russia, I haven't seen her for over two years due to Covid, and most likely I will never see her again. She is heartbroken. Her childhood hometown is completely erased now. I'm absolutely numb. Numb with grief. My people are killing my people. The amount of disinformation is beyond crazy, on both sides. I read both Russian and Ukrainian forums and platforms, and agree with one of the posters above, the newsfeed is very selective here. You cannot justify the war, that's obvious, but the amount of fake news spread over here is staggering. For the rest of my lifetime I would be considered an enemy by many people here just because I was born in Russia. My younger DS has already been trolled in school. He's never even visited Russia, we speak English at home (my DH is from a different European country). I received hate email already, with photos of the dead bodies, saying it's my fault and responsibility, and that every Russian family will have coffins with their dead boys arriving soon. What's the next move, to send all the British Russians to the camps like they did with the "alien enemies" during the WWI and WWII?

That’s really scary to read @MamaUmki, I’m so sorry you’re getting hate mail on top f everything else.

I hope your family are ok and that you are able to see your mother again.

@MamaUmki You cannot justify the war, that's obvious, but the amount of fake news spread over here is staggering @Amrapaali agree the fake news on both sides is atrocious.

Could we have clear examples here please, lest we buy into the propaganda? To be clear; have the Russians rolled their army into another country or not and started killing?

@otille Yes sanctions are very unnerving, but we're trying to get through them with humour and 'it'll be all figured out' attitude. Nice that you find humour in it, how crass.

Nice that you find humour in it, how crass.

@twilightcustard

What do you expect an average Russian to do? Cracking a dry joke about sanctions is sometimes the only positive thing that can happen in their day.

[quote otille]@MagicFox I'm sorry I don't think I (or 99.99% of people) know enough truth to make a conclusion on the events.
I don't think enough people know the truth on 9/11 either.

I prefer to ask questions rather than state non-factual opinions. Hence my question to Brits still stands: 'How come there were no sanctions on all Brits and Americans when they illegally invaded Iraq?'

Sorry if it's coming across as pushy, I am genuinely interested and not blaming anyone here. [/quote]
To answer your question on why there were no sanctions re war on Iraq.

1. The “coalition of the willing” that invaded Iraq wasn’t just ‘Brits and Americans’ it also included Australia, Poland, and Spain. In addition to the coalition members, there was then widespread international feeling that ‘something must be done’ about Iraq’s chemical weapons program for a long time.

1. There was a much slower build up to the war, with Saddam Hussein being given many chances to allow in UN weapons inspectors etc. Saddam was bluffing the west that he had chemical weapons of mass destruction. We know that he did have such a program at some point. The west believed him when he threatened it was still active. There was also (faulty) intelligence in the UK from its agents in Iraq that Saddam could use weapons of mass destruction against UK territory within 45 minutes.

1. Since 9/11, there was then real fear of Al Qaeda, in US and UK in particular. At that time it was thought, wrongly or rightly, that Iraq was helping arm and fund Al Qaeda, in much the same was as Iran and Afghanistan did later.

1. Most of Saddam’s own people feared and despised him, and Blair-Bush expected them to rejoice at being rescued from him in much the same way as Kosovo celebrated at the intervention there. Many of the Iraqis did celebrate… I’ve met some of them and what Saddam did to his people was horrific. Blair-Bush were naive about the complexity of Middle East politics and had no follow up plan after the invasion, but that doesn’t change how much most Iraqis loathed Saddam and his torturers.

1. America UK Spain Poland and Australia are liberal democracies who give a huge amount of aid to poorer countries. In short: they have a lot of friends.

By contrast, Putin is a dictator who assinates his political opponents in sadistic psychopathic ways, steals from his people to build ridiculously huge palaces, contributes nothing to the world except for arming Assad’s dictatorship in Syria, is so scared of his on people that he keeps a personal army of 400,000, and sends dissidents to gulags. He invaded Ukraine suddenly and for no apparent reason, the people there have a popular and charming democratic leader, and Ukraine has friends.

It isn’t comparable. If it was, the world would have reacted in the same way.

The wind whispers, good post.

The freedom I have probably taken as a given now is a very precious privilege. My heart breaks for both the Ukrainian and the vast majority of Russian population who are paying the price of this injustice. Putin is guilty of so many things. War crimes being close to the top of the list.

War mongers appear to all have some things in common

They're male
Usually old
Oftentimes ugly
Always have gazillions of loot /luxuries stashed away in other countries

@Papertyger

The wind whispers, good post.

Absolutely, thank you @Thewindwhispers

I am becoming very tired of the level of whataboutery around this horrible situation. Hint to some posters-if something is indefensible, don't try to defend it, not even by invoking the (undoubted) past mistakes of NATO/the US/the UK, etc, etc. It doesn't make Putin's hands any cleaner, even before he invaded Ukraine.

I'll try to reply to everyone who mentioned me. Thank you to @Thewindwhispers @listsandbudgets @lillyjemima @samsalmon I appreciate your kind words.
Not sure if @TheWayTheLightFalls meant me, in reference to the Russian bots. I have nc-ed, but if you're in doubt about my whereabouts, do ask Mumsnet to confirm that I have been here for many years.

As you directly mentioned me @twilightcustard I haven't spread any propaganda. Where did you see me supporting the cause of war? If you read my first post, you would see that I said that I'm numb with grief, because my people are killing my people, having families in both Russia and the Ukraine.

You want examples of what has been intentionally avoided in the West?
OK. Would you like to see what my cousin who lives in Donbass (probably not any longer, as the last time I heard, they were planning to leave) wrote? I had a quick look at what she said back in 2014, long before the current war.

Hi, [my name]. I'm writing to you from the occupied territories of Luhansk. I want to tell you the truth about how our army is bombing my town, we live in fear. My children are scared of the explosions and when the aeroplanes are flying over. We sit in the cellars and pray to God. I'm terrified of the repressions. We live in Hell, and I don't understand why we're being killed. I want the Ukrainian army not to kill the children of Luhansk.

As for the links, you can do your own research. Just have a look at the fact-ckeckers how to verify information involving the war in the Ukraine, and how much has been posted and shared.

@MamaUmki no, it’s clear who I was replying to and quoting.

Anyone concerned that we are being sold propaganda in UK media may be reassured by this episode of the UkkraineCast podcast on BBC: www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0btrq24

This to me is the difference between Russian disinformation and what we can access in UK. Healthy scepticism and engaging in critical thinking is encouraged here.

Loads of British people protested against the war on Iraq (pretty sure it's now illegal to protest in the Uk) millions of us marched.

The UK government didn't listen or give a shit about us not wanting to inflict war then, I'm sure the Russian gov don't give a shit if some Russians are against the war in Crimea

@MamaUmki

Sorry to hear what you and your family are going through and sorry your children have been targeted in school. This is absolutely shameful. Please be aware that most people here are very aware that this is not the fault or the responsibility of ordinary Russians.

It's why it's really important to Keep making the distinction between Russia and Putin.

otille

Russian here. Do you know what it feels like to be Russian right now? Like it's 1941 and I'm both a Jew and a German. The world hates me (German) and wants me dead/wiped out from this earth (Jew).“

So sorry you feel this way. The vast majority of people in “the West” feel no hatred towards you. They just recognise that your leader is a dangerous megalomaniac who is putting the security of the whole world at risk.
I’m an ordinary mother in “the West”. I have no ill feeling towards you at all, just compassion for the difficult and complicated position you find yourself in through no fault of your own.

To those who asked what I wanted from this post. The answer is in the thread title... Opinions. There is always propoganda in war both sides but watching all different Countries news channels including Al Jazeera, and having watched Russia today before it was pulled off air I can conclude that Putins lies and imprisonment of people who dare to disagree with him, his threats on nuclear weapons. The poisonings, the fact he won't call it a war, the frankly pathetic n blatant lies told at UN security Council meeting about birds being used (?!) the millions of scared cold hungry displaced people fleeing Ukraine because their houses have been bombed, hospitals attacked, children killed the footage of an 18month old baby in a hospital dying in front of his inconsolable parents, the use of chemical weapons in Syria, the baffling nazi story of "freeing Ukraine" from its Jewish ffs president, and the clear will of the Ukrainian people shouting to the world they don't need saving from Ukraine they need saving from poo tin. The fact that practically every Country in the world condemns Russians actions the fact we have Russians on TV who have been banned from telling truth talking about it to foreign news channels I'd more than enough to convince me Putin is an animal and must be stopped

Everything that anyone reads through a news outlet cannot be verified as ‘the truth’. We can say until we’re blue in the face that the West is always told the truth. It doesn’t mean we are. We only know we believe it to be the truth.

After the overwhelming untruths seen recently, through Brexit and even from the Royal Family, I’m not sure the UK is much different. I am not in support of Russia, but I find it strange that people say ‘Putin rigged his elections, Russians are repressed’ etc. We think that because that’s what we’re told.

The only thing I am certain of, whatever Putin is doing, regardless of lots of noise about sanctions, the West are going to let him do it.

Another Russian here.
I am absolutely heartbroken and devastated about all this. I still wake up every night screaming as this has been so traumatizing to comprehend. That my country invaded Ukraine. How is it even possible?! And what is their excuse?! And how do Russians actually believe this nonsense- that they are freeing Ukraine from nazi?!
I have been living abroad longer than I lived in Russia. I left Russia when I was barely 20. Before Putin was a President. Both my parents are still in Russia. I am a quarter Ukrainian. My maternal grandfather was Ukrainian, he carried a Ukrainian surname. Ukrainian was the language that he spoke all his life, even though that he lived in Russia.
I also have family in Ukraine on my Dad side. Currently in Ukraine, not being able to leave.
I have a lot of Ukrainian friends.
I am ashamed to the core. Yes, all my friends are being nice and supportive and they keep telling me that it is not my fault. But I can’t help it. I have this shame. This overwhelming feeling of guilt that I never experienced before. When I watch footages of Russian people in Russia repeating what they hear in federal tv, I want to scream. I want to shake them because they make no sense. They justify the war! They don’t believe that the Russians are bombing houses, hospitals, theaters. They say it’s all done by the Ukrainians. And those Russians are encouraged to go and fight. Even Russian Orthodox Church is giving them a blessing, how insane is that?!
We were brought up by this ideology - let it be anything but war. No war. World peace. And what are they saying now?! Do I even know these people?! Sadly, I do. And it breaks my heart. I lost a lot of relationships during these past few weeks. But it doesn’t hurt. It just makes me very angry. I am so angry. I’m angry that I lost my country. I don’t know when will be the next time I step my foot on the Russian soil. It won’t be until he is dead. And even then. With all those zombies that used to be people I knew and loved. They terrify me.
I really don’t know what else to say. I just wish it was a dream.
How do I feel? I feel like a mother whose child just gone and done a mass shooting. I’m just sitting here with my head in my hands and I howl.

I’m Ukrainian and was interested to find out this as well with the glimpse of hope that after all the sanctions and protests in Russia majority would be condemning this war so have been reading Russians forums to see what they think and unfortunately, overwhelming majority on those forums support Putins’ actions. I also discovered that most Russians posting on those forums do not buy Putins’ propaganda of Nazis in Ukraine but they do think Ukrainians are Russophobes.

I also came across some interesting views of Russians appalled by this war. They think the issue with Russian society is that it has never been fully “decommunised” after collapse of Soviet Union which aimed to be worlds’ superpower. So until this decommunisation happens, people would still mourn lost territories.