Do you think that seeing the Ukrainian refugee crisis unfold will increase empathy for refugees from Middle East/Africa

[BudgeUpAnne]

I don't think this is at all conscious, but I think that the pictures we are seeing are genuinely resonating with the West because of the fact that they are Europeans and white. It's horrifying and makes us feel that war is very close to home.

Like it or not, the prospect of UK refugees from Middle Eastern and African war zones divides opinion. There are many firmly in the camp that they are not our problem or that we are full. I sincerely hope that seeing neighboring countries to Ukraine taking hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of Ukrainian evacuees will stop people bleating on about how we take our fair share.

No I don't think it will. They are the wrong colour.

I heard an interesting discussion today that it's not that the Ukrainian refugees are white, necessarily. It's arguably that they are very visibly children, women and the elderly - the men are staying. All of the refugees have Ukrainian ID cards so their identities can be verified at the borders. They pretty much all want to go back when this horrific mess is over.

The immigration that rightly or wrongly is a cause of concern from the Middle East and Africa is seen as the economic migration of predominantly adult men, many of whom have no identification papers.

Priti Patel meanwhile seems to be operating as an equal opps arsehole.

I've been a white migrant a few times. I'm not 'that sort' of immigrant to xenophobes. And they are happy to say it in front of me.

I was quite willing to consider your post until I got to 'bleating on' part

There are thousands of Ukrainians in the UK, and Ukraine is on the same continent as the UK. The country attacking Ukraine is the same country people in the UK have been worried about for years, during and after the cold war. Ukraine has been plunged suddenly into a war with no preparation, with no build up over years of internal civil war. Something like the conflict in Sudan just doesn't have the same resonance.

Judging by the comments in the Daily Mail today, I doubt it.

The Daily Mail will happily publish pictures of refugees being welcomed in Poland and will also happily publish angry columns about refugees from other countries arriving in our country.

I wonder if attitudes would change if we had regular updates on the situation in the countries people are fleeing from?

From what's been shown, it looks like refugees from Ukraine are mostly women, children, and the elderly. The men appear to be rolling their sleeves up and defending their homeland.
The middle Eastern/African refugees that we are shown in the media appear to be mostly men running away.

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove

I heard an interesting discussion today that it's not that the Ukrainian refugees are white, necessarily. It's arguably that they are very visibly children, women and the elderly - the men are staying. All of the refugees have Ukrainian ID cards so their identities can be verified at the borders. They pretty much all want to go back when this horrific mess is over.

The immigration that rightly or wrongly is a cause of concern from the Middle East and Africa is seen as the economic migration of predominantly adult men, many of whom have no identification papers.

Have to agree with this - they're not leaving their women and children behind to face warlords and atrocities on their own. I feel desperately for the men stuck behind the border who don't want to or aren't able to fight - my DH has said previously that he would have been a conscientious objector in WW2, and I wouldn't leave him behind.

It's the first time I've ever felt stirred enough to want to do 'something' be it join a protest, make a Molotov cocktail or even go join the fight myself.....but I want to feel that about THIS country and I don't.

I feel so much more for Ukraine and I want their president to be ours! I can't feel that for our government. For Boris. Nope

I don't think I'm explaining myself very well here but I hope someone can explain it better or at least feels similiar

The middle Eastern/African refugees that we are shown in the media appear to be mostly men running away

Ever wondered what the refugee camps look like in Greece, Turkey, Kenya, Jordan, Bangladesh and Sudan?

Kind of makes the numbers we take in look pitiful

www.unrefugees.org/news/refugee-camps-explained/

Approximately 22 percent of the world’s refugee population live in refugee camps – an estimated 6.6 million people. Among them, 4.5 million reside in planned and managed camps and approximately 2 million are sheltered in self-settled camps.

The Kutupalong refugee settlement, located in the Cox’s Bazar region of Bangladesh, is currently the world’s largest refugee camp. The settlement includes approximately 26 camps that host more than 700,000 Rohingya refugees who fled violence in Myanmar’s Rakhine State -more than half of whom are children

We see just a handful of the people who have made it to the UK and want to bring their families once they arrive

Yes.

Plus we’ve grown up with war in the middle east and africa and the steady stream of pictures ofnev starving african children mean its lost its emotional impact. Seeing European refugees is much more rare.

So yes I think it will.

I think it may change if we saw mainly women and children arriving her instead of mainly men.

I tend to think it is about culture.
Ukrainiams live lives similar to us. and that they live in a culture that is like ours.
Many of the migrants we have been inundated with are not like us. They think men are superior to women and are so far back in sexist attitudes that their relationships bear very little resemblance to ours.
the way they dress always covering up their bodies and or hair is not our way.
Their religion is also very different and lets be blunt...they don't really see democracy the same way we do.
This has also affected their art work. No depiction of human face or bodies is allowed.
The men running away to the UK leaving their female family members alone are the opposite to our ways.
They also tend ot have very larger families something else our culture has mainly left behind.

I wish we could help by taking in many of the women and children who are in danger while the men fight off the Russians.

I agree with pp who said they are more sympathetic to refugees who are women, children and elderly while the men bravely stay behind to fight. I have no sympathy for young fit males who run away from Eastern/African countries and leave their vulnerable families to face the music.

Nope. Go and read some of the comments on the Daily Mail app.

No, it won’t increase sympathy to others as their movement is very much temporary or likely to be. They will want to return to their homeland much quicker. I assume their skill sets and resources are better. I believe it to be a very different situation to economic or environmental immigrants.

I think social media plays a large part in this. Facebook made a profile frame when the Charlie hebdo terrorist attacked happened, je suis Charlie or the Eiffel Tower etc, almost every Twitter user has the Ukrainian flag in their profile now, there are so many options offered to signal support for atrocities carried out in white majority countries but there’s never been a profile frame for Yemen or Afghanistan or the Rohingyas or Myanmar has there?

@goldfinchfan

I tend to think it is about culture. Ukrainiams live lives similar to us. and that they live in a culture that is like ours. Many of the migrants we have been inundated with are not like us. They think men are superior to women and are so far back in sexist attitudes that their relationships bear very little resemblance to ours. the way they dress always covering up their bodies and or hair is not our way. Their religion is also very different and lets be blunt...they don't really see democracy the same way we do. This has also affected their art work. No depiction of human face or bodies is allowed. The men running away to the UK leaving their female family members alone are the opposite to our ways. They also tend ot have very larger families something else our culture has mainly left behind.

I wish we could help by taking in many of the women and children who are in danger while the men fight off the Russians.

I agree, we have much more common ground with the Ukrainians than the other groups that you mentioned, so it is easier to identify with them. The majority of Ukranians are Christian, and that means that they are perceived as less of a threat than certain other religions. There would be no perception that they would come here with the intent of changing our society to fit their religion/culture, or that they would be infiltrating our country with a plan to carry out terrorist acts.

So I think many UK citizens may be more accepting of Ukrainian refugees, and feel more empathy for them.

Well. Of course. It's all about tribe really, isn't it?

I would have more identity with a Christian Ukrainian woman with two small kids than a young single Muslim Syrian man.

And I know these refugees from North Africa/ Middle East often say the sons are sent because they think they'll eventually bring over wives and children... But I can't help feel it's just lip service.

The Ukrainian men stayed and sent their wives, mothers and kids to safety.

Completely agree with PP who say that we are more sympathetic to Ukraine because their men are courageously fighting for their country and sending their wives and children to safety which is exactly the opposite of what happened in Afghanistan.

@Mumblechum0

Completely agree with PP who say that we are more sympathetic to Ukraine because their men are courageously fighting for their country and sending their wives and children to safety which is exactly the opposite of what happened in Afghanistan.

Erm, haven't the men been conscripted?

I think the scenario you've set up is too simplistic.

For one thing your assumption that people aren't sympathetic to Middle Eastern refugees because they aren't white. It's worth keeping in mind that lots of non-white people in the UK also have concerns about migrants of all kinds.

It's also very possible to be empathetic to people and yet also to think that integrating them could be a big problem.

Personally I have found people overall are more willing to see people who are actually fleeing from things like being bombed somewhat differently than they see economic migrants. When we had quite an influx of Syrians fleeing outright warfare there were many people who were very empathetic and wanted to make room for them. That may not be fair - not being able to eat is pretty serious after all, but on the other hand there are so many people who this could apply to in the world it is difficult to see where any line could be drawn.

There are also concerns people have about ability to integrate and compatible values that aren't as far as I can see particularly related to empathy.

And I really would not discount the kind of social capital that refugees from very different cultures require to be settled.

I belong to an organization that, among other things, sponsors refugee families. Which is to say we take responsibility for a family coming through the refugee system, raise money for their first year, arrange housing, help them get settled, get appointments set up for medical and dental, get their kids enrolled in school, and so on. Most of the refugees we have had are African, and though Christian come from a very different culture. And - this is also significant - have lived a good part of their lives in camps.

It is a huge overwhelming amount of work to get people like this settled. Not just the money to support them or mainly that, it's the social supports.

Without a strong, stable community and a lot of social capital, this doesn't happen, and when it doesn't happen, you get bad situations. Some of which we've seen in other countries.

It's not illogical or unempathetic for people to be aware of and worry about the social costs of welcoming more and more people in that kind of situation, and whether we have the wherewithal to meet those costs.