Do you think that seeing the Ukrainian refugee crisis unfold will increase empathy for refugees from Middle East/Africa

[BudgeUpAnne]

I don't think this is at all conscious, but I think that the pictures we are seeing are genuinely resonating with the West because of the fact that they are Europeans and white. It's horrifying and makes us feel that war is very close to home.

Like it or not, the prospect of UK refugees from Middle Eastern and African war zones divides opinion. There are many firmly in the camp that they are not our problem or that we are full. I sincerely hope that seeing neighboring countries to Ukraine taking hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of Ukrainian evacuees will stop people bleating on about how we take our fair share.

And to all the ones talking about men 'leaving the women and children to face the music'

Don't forget that the journey is different.

Don't forget Aylun Kurdi.

@Usou

Well said Noname99.

Who do these people think they are volunteering the country away on everybody else's behalf?

People with empathy and compassion, that's who.

@Noname99, you might be on to something. I’ve never known a white immigrant, including Ukrainians to have ever committed any crime. They do not rape or do anything criminal.

These other people with brown and black skin are bad people. All of them.

Yep, racism is alive and well on Mumsnet. Mumsnet HQ do very little if anything and people are subjected to this when the come on Mumsnet. This sort of view is an everyday, casual thing on mumsnet.

And they said racism doesn’t exist in Britain 😂. Goodness me. Some of these comments are awful. ‘It’s just that I will relate more’ ‘It’s tribal’ We’re all human. I’m not white but I still feel awful for those in the Ukraine, the same as I feel for those from other countries. Makes me sad that if someone saw my two children in need, they’d probably pick my daughter to save because she looks white (even though she isn’t) with blue eyes rather than my son who looks mixed race and is male. How many of you would want your sons to stand and fight? I know I wouldn’t want my son to anymore than I would want my daughter. To be honest, I’m not even surprised. But when I read things like this, it makes me feel unwanted and sad.

@GreenClock

I agree that it’s more about culture than colour. The public doesn’t want to grant visas to potentially sexist and homophobic individuals.

Ukraine has a large far right movement. People are comfortable letting extremists from one race in to their country but not the other type.

The men are not leaving because they're not allowed to, but there are stories of women begging that their husbands can go with them so I'm not sure that there is an overwhelming desire to stay.

I agree with the points around the economic migrants, but you don't know that every single person crossing that channel is an economic migrant, there are dozens of nationalities there who have fled for completely different reasons.

Can we really expect Syrians and Afghans civilian men to stay behind and defend their country - what exactly are they defending? Foreign forces have played a hand in bombing their buildings to smithereens along with homegrown threats, who are all armed. The Ukrainians being told to stay behind are being armed, there is significant aid and international support coming in to help them fight against Russia, but were these resources made available to other countries of war? I don't think they were and so I'm not sure we can really compare

@Ylvamoon

it's not that the Ukrainian refugees are white, necessarily. It's arguably that they are very visibly children, women and the elderly - the men are staying. All of the refugees have Ukrainian ID cards so their identities can be verified at the borders

^ This

AND

The refugees are currently going to their neighboring countries ... and move on from there mainly to refugee camps. Then if they are lucky they find refuge in an safe country.
Anyone having to flee their country under these circumstances gets my sympathy.

Anyone paying people smugglers/ criminals in the hope to get a better life unfortunately doesn't get my sympathy.

Yes let's have no sympathy for people who want a better life.

@newhairday

No because usually from the middle east it is the men who flee and leave the women and children

Do you know what they do to the men in these countries ? They kill them. The men leave to set up a base somewhere safe so that their wives and children know they if leave and risk their lives on boats, they know it's because they have somewhere safe to go to.

Whenever someone raises the issue of refugees coming to the UK I'm reminded of the Daily Mail story from 1938:

"GERMAN JEWS POURING INTO THIS COUNTRY"

"The way stateless Jews from Germany are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage"

No wrong colour and or wrong religion. As I said to h Albania despite being between Greece and Kosovo opposite Italy will never be eu - they are classed as Muslim (which is actually funny as you would find out if you went)

Erm, haven't the men been conscripted?

They could easily escape if they wanted to.

The other thing about Ukraine is that the Ukrainians are seen as being not at fault. With conflicts like Somalia (or, for that matter, the Balkans, where there was no great willingness to take refugees either as far as I remember) you have got interminable fighting between different clan lineages or ethnic groups, and rightly or wrongly there is a feeling off "This conflict is connected with the culture, and if the people come here they may bring this dysfunction with them."

I hate the young men comments. I've worked for years with refugees. From the middle East and Africa people tend to have already spent time (often years) in refugee camps or come directly from violent conflict. The men tend to take the dangerous journey with the idea that they can get work and bring over (or send money to) family. Often the women come a few years later via a more organised route. It is a perilous journey for women and often results in rape and risk of being forced into the sex trade. I think I would stay in a camp rather than risk this especially with my daughter. Often the men had stayed to fight but either they lost, or the conflict has gone on for years and they can't take it any more. Ukraine has been at war less than a week. They are "lucky" that the neighbouring countries are relatively wealthy and haven't been in conflict themselves for a while.
If you want to play the who costs more card, a family is an expensive option as they schooling to pay for and kids are economically "productive".
I personally would welcome far more refugees as well as do more to improve the economic stability of countries rather than exploiting so many places.

Brown and black men will come here marauding and raping white women, who are just irresistible to these beastly people. Don’t you know that?

@Why2why

Brown and black men will come here marauding and raping white women, who are just irresistible to these beastly people. Don’t you know that?

I am shocked at the comments. I shouldn't be, because MN is known for it, but it's still so shocking to see people be so open with it

The refugees are currently going to their neighboring countries ... and move on from there mainly to refugee camps. Then if they are lucky they find refuge in an safe country.

So let me get this right, you think it's only acceptable if they 1) just go to a neighbouring country and 2) first 'pay their dues' by staying in a camp, usually in deplorable conditions. Is this comparable to the wait in purgatory before being allowed into the great light of heaven? have a look at the attached photo or the Syrian crisis. The majority of refugees have been taken in by closer countries than the UK, we don't even make it into the top 13.

Anyone having to flee their country under these circumstances gets my sympathy.

What circumstances? War? As in, Syria/Afghanistan? Which are the ones who've been most recently in the news regarding the refugee crisis?

Anyone paying people smugglers/ criminals in the hope to get a better life unfortunately doesn't get my sympathy.

Again, a lot of these are also people fleeing war. Or do you think these are a different group of people?

I think it's largely cultural. You are more likely to feel greater sympathy for people who have similar values - eg women as equal.

I think the Ukrainians have shown themselves to be much better people than most of the rest of the world!

They are making sure the elderly/children/vulnerable are getting to safety, the government are fighting on the front lines with the rest of thier people. Rich and famous Ukraine sport people are putting on camo and going to fight - can you imagine any British doing that? Boris and the rest would be down a bunch Kee before the first shot was fire. The rich and famous would fly off in thier private jets and leave us to it!

I think we can all see the good in the Ukraine’s response to this crisis , and it gives us some to something to root for. We just don’t get the same reporting from other conflicts and like previously said we see the younger single males coming over here and the impression is that they are abandoning thier home country for an easier quicker buck here. I imagine if the Ukraine conflict last for years then eventually the press coverage will change, we will all forget this initial period and perception will change to Ukrainians are coming to ‘take our jobs’!

@Why2why

The casual racism on Mumsnet is incredible and would be funny if it were not just downright pathetic and dangerous. This way if thinking is all over the place. They sit beside you, say this kind of racist rubbish and at the same time tell you with a straight face that they are not racist. They’re only kidding themselves.

Indeed. Disguised with similar cultural values and other such guff. As if a 5-yr old Syrian child needs to display his respect for women before being let over the border. But a 5 yr old Ukrainian child is fine because blond and blue eyed.

@Motherofgorgons absolutely not. Most people would support children coming to safety regardless of race. Huge numbers of men with backwards views on women that they're likely to keep and act upon here? No.

@roarfeckingroarr

I think it's largely cultural. You are more likely to feel greater sympathy for people who have similar values - eg women as equal.

Yeah sure.