Do you think that seeing the Ukrainian refugee crisis unfold will increase empathy for refugees from Middle East/Africa

[BudgeUpAnne]

I don't think this is at all conscious, but I think that the pictures we are seeing are genuinely resonating with the West because of the fact that they are Europeans and white. It's horrifying and makes us feel that war is very close to home.

Like it or not, the prospect of UK refugees from Middle Eastern and African war zones divides opinion. There are many firmly in the camp that they are not our problem or that we are full. I sincerely hope that seeing neighboring countries to Ukraine taking hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of Ukrainian evacuees will stop people bleating on about how we take our fair share.

@Moonmelodies

Interesting to see this opinion repeated often in this thread.

Why should we have more sympathy for young fit women who are running away - especially from a country with more gender equal values like Ukraine?
After all what do you think is going to happen to those men fighting Russia? They aren’t going to win and many will be killed and possibly worse before.
So given that them being men also gives them zero chance of actually beating a far superior Russian force - if them running away is cowardly and they should stay for certain default and probably death, then why is the same not true of women from a country with gender equal ideals and such?
Both the men and the women have no chance against Russia.

If anything shouldn’t we have more sympathy for women running away from troubles if they’re from a country which doesn’t have those gender equal beliefs? Because if Ukrainian women that are fit and young think men should die so they can get away isn’t that just hypocrisy if they hold any gender equal beliefs?

Why is a man running away worse when he has no chance at winning worse than a woman running away? And if they are different what does that say about supposed gender equal beliefs and women in the armed forces and such? If it really comes down to it it’s all just been a big crock and men should die while women flee?

@Mumblechum0

I mean what do you expect? Afghanistan men weren’t fighting for any ideals they vbelieved in so why would they fight the Taliban? What would they have been fighting for? The ideals of their previous American invaders which were probably more foreign and unwelcome to them than those of the Taliban?

I mean Afghanistan men come from a very male dominated culture - and they may not have loved the Taliban but they were hardly going to look at America with its 50% divorce rate and think, “let me pick up a gun and risk my life for the ideal of getting divorced, leaving my house and seeing my kids on the weekend” against the Talibans ideals (which are just more extreme versions of their own beliefs and more in line to their own and those of their country in general). Writing that out makes me a little worried about what would happen were we attacked lol.

Actually the Afghanistan women didn’t fight and die against the Taliban for their beliefs as Ukrainian men are now doing so it’s not the exact opposite anyway. Those Ukrainian men are peerless in their courage in your example.

It’s very natural that something resonates more when it happens closer to home, hence why a local murder may be headline news locally but it may not even make the national news.

Others make a good point about the refugees being primarily women and children.

Indian medical students in the Ukraine who wish to return to India, and have papers, and are not terrorists, and many of whom are women, are not being allowed to enter Poland. indianexpress.com/article/cities/ludhiana/endless-walk-freezing-night-hypothermia-indian-students-stranded-poland-border-describe-ordeal-7792369/ I am going to hazard that skin colour does play a part.

@Motherofgorgons

Indian medical students in the Ukraine who wish to return to India, and have papers, and are not terrorists, and many of whom are women, are not being allowed to enter Poland. indianexpress.com/article/cities/ludhiana/endless-walk-freezing-night-hypothermia-indian-students-stranded-poland-border-describe-ordeal-7792369/ I am going to hazard that skin colour does play a part.

And Africans twitter.com/AfricaFactsZone/status/1497726698665787393?t=j5Hoidd-Fq3sRbP-UI46Nw&s=19

I just saw something on the news about the Indian and African students being kept at the border. Reports are that they're being told it's 'payback' for India's failure to oppose and condemn Russia at the UN security council.

I can't see which African countries are involved.

Somebody needs to be having a word, if these students are being prevented from leaving.

@Motherofgorgons

No I don't think it will. They are the wrong colour.

I don’t think it’s just a question of skin colour. Many people - not all white! - are understandably wary of admitting the more militant type of Muslim.

Interesting to read this thread. I was saying to DP that I was guiltily aware of how upset we both are about Ukraine and how strongly we identify with its citizens, whether they're trying to leave or learning to use weapons or save lives, when we haven't felt quite the same about refugees and migrants from African and ME countries. I'd put it down to racism/white European tribalism, but I guess there are other considerations.

I’m not sure it’s so much about but colour but more about culture. The concern with refugees outside of Europe is the concern they could be Muslim extremists. I think if 9/11 hadn’t happened the Islamaphobia would t be as rife as it is now.

Ukraine is currently under an active attack.The middle eastern/african migrants such as those who are crossing in dinghies aren't in that situation, so there isn't the same level of empathy. Additionally the ones in dinghies often seem to be young healthy males looking for a better life rather than women/children fleeing for their life as we can see in Ukraine. Additionally, there's the issue of islamist extremism and hugely different cultural values.

@Motherofgorgons

Indian medical students in the Ukraine who wish to return to India, and have papers, and are not terrorists, and many of whom are women, are not being allowed to enter Poland. indianexpress.com/article/cities/ludhiana/endless-walk-freezing-night-hypothermia-indian-students-stranded-poland-border-describe-ordeal-7792369/ I am going to hazard that skin colour does play a part.

No one seems to care if you're the wrong colour

Ukrainians are white. So nope.

The difference in the Hungarian peoples attitude to Ukrainian refugees and Syrian refugees is disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves.

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove

I heard an interesting discussion today that it's not that the Ukrainian refugees are white, necessarily. It's arguably that they are very visibly children, women and the elderly - the men are staying. All of the refugees have Ukrainian ID cards so their identities can be verified at the borders. They pretty much all want to go back when this horrific mess is over.

The immigration that rightly or wrongly is a cause of concern from the Middle East and Africa is seen as the economic migration of predominantly adult men, many of whom have no identification papers.

There are Africans in Ukraine. I know them. They are evacuating (letting Ukrainians cross the border) in order of wimen and children first. But this does not apply to any black woman or child.

It boils down to colour of skin.

Hasn’t India recently shown themselves to be a supporter of Russia? Whilst I’m not saying you’re wrong, I wonder if there’s more at play here.

@Motherofgorgons

No I don't think it will. They are the wrong colour.

partly that and partly religion. People do not trust young Muslim men not to blow them up.

@Motherofgorgons

No I don't think it will. They are the wrong colour.

This!

As a PP has already pointed out - Ukrainian men aren't leaving because they're not allowed to leave.

Romania are not allowing fighting age men through the border. Not sure about other countries. This certainly helps with public support.

@NobodysGonnaKnow

Hasn’t India recently shown themselves to be a supporter of Russia? Whilst I’m not saying you’re wrong, I wonder if there’s more at play here.

Why should innocent students pay for the cowardice of their leaders? Though more recent reports now suggesting some are being let through. I hope everyone regardless of colour is allowed safe passage without conjecture about whether they hate women or not. Given some of them are women!

European leaders now saying Ukrainian refugees are just like them: blonde and blue eyed.:(

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove

I heard an interesting discussion today that it's not that the Ukrainian refugees are white, necessarily. It's arguably that they are very visibly children, women and the elderly - the men are staying. All of the refugees have Ukrainian ID cards so their identities can be verified at the borders. They pretty much all want to go back when this horrific mess is over.

The immigration that rightly or wrongly is a cause of concern from the Middle East and Africa is seen as the economic migration of predominantly adult men, many of whom have no identification papers.

Completely agree with this. All the "refugees" coming from Calais are young men. Says a lot.

They're also western in terms of values - women as equal etc.

@jayritchie

Romania are not allowing fighting age men through the border. Not sure about other countries. This certainly helps with public support.

It's not that Romania won't let them in, it's that Ukraine won't let them out.

I'm happy to be corrected here though, if anyone can link to anything.

Most of the refugees from Middle East and Africa arriving at UK borders are young, healthy, single men.
The refugees from Ukraine are overwhelming number of women, children and elderly people. The men and women without children have stayed behind to fight for their country.

Which group do you think would garner the most sympathy from everyone around the world and not just the UK?

@goldfinchfan

I tend to think it is about culture. Ukrainiams live lives similar to us. and that they live in a culture that is like ours. Many of the migrants we have been inundated with are not like us. They think men are superior to women and are so far back in sexist attitudes that their relationships bear very little resemblance to ours. the way they dress always covering up their bodies and or hair is not our way. Their religion is also very different and lets be blunt...they don't really see democracy the same way we do. This has also affected their art work. No depiction of human face or bodies is allowed. The men running away to the UK leaving their female family members alone are the opposite to our ways. They also tend ot have very larger families something else our culture has mainly left behind.

I wish we could help by taking in many of the women and children who are in danger while the men fight off the Russians.

100%