Do you think that seeing the Ukrainian refugee crisis unfold will increase empathy for refugees from Middle East/Africa

[BudgeUpAnne]

I don't think this is at all conscious, but I think that the pictures we are seeing are genuinely resonating with the West because of the fact that they are Europeans and white. It's horrifying and makes us feel that war is very close to home.

Like it or not, the prospect of UK refugees from Middle Eastern and African war zones divides opinion. There are many firmly in the camp that they are not our problem or that we are full. I sincerely hope that seeing neighboring countries to Ukraine taking hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of Ukrainian evacuees will stop people bleating on about how we take our fair share.

Completely agree with this. All the "refugees" coming from Calais are young men.

No they're not. Some of them are women and some of them are children and some of them are older men.

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove
Spot on!

Rolling my eyes at large African families when every bloody Tory party member either has 6 or 7 kids ( hard to keep track).

@DenholmElliot the vast majority are men

@Motherofgorgons what bollocks. You're basing this on JRM?

@roarfeckingroarr I'm right then aren't I. Not all of the refugees are men.

The BBC rolling news showed a live piece from its Poland correspondent Kasia Madera on the border.

She says that the Indian and African [where in Africa??] students are being let through, but the inward flow of refugees is being staggered on the Ukrainian side, because the Polish border guards and the border refugee infrastructure will be swamped otherwise. They need to avoid crushes and chaos - they want a steady flow.

Refugees with children and the elderly are being prioritised. The camera crew did show groups of students who had got through to the Polish side, and they were groups of young adults, mostly male.

So Ukraine and Poland are saying that yes there are demographic reasons for prioritising crossings but they are not racist ones.

I think part of the reason why it is resonating with us is that it reminds us of the second world war when the Jewish people were trying to escape - boarding trains just in time, parents sending children alone across borders etc. We've all been taught so much about that at school, and seen so many films about it - it is like a national trauma that we're seeing played out again. And one of the players is Poland, which also tugs at our heartstrings.

I'm disappointed if indeed there is racism at play in allowing people to get to safety however.

The journey the Middle eastern refugees are taking seems much different to the Ukrainian refugees and a lot more dangerous, that could be part of the reason they say they'll send the men and then the men will bring the family over in a safer way once they've made it. Also lots of women and children in those camps, even babies being born in the camps. I know they also sometimes take separate journeys for all sorts of reasons and then meet up again in whichever country later.

Apparently most of the 'African' students are from Nigeria.

I don't know why the BBC didn't say that in the first place. Africa is a continent. Nigeria is the country, the nationality. Context matters.

Anyway, Wiki (sorry) says that:

In 2017, Russia and Nigeria signed an agreement on military cooperation. Nigeria is interested in buying Russian military equipment. Nigeria has already signed a contract for the purchase of Mi-35 helicopters, six of which have already been delivered.[3] In August 2021, Nigeria and Russia signed an agreement for the Russian Armed Forces to train and supply the Nigerian Armed Forces.[4] It was signed in Moscow by Nigerian Minister of Defence Bashir Salihi Magashi and Russian FSVTS Director Dmitry Shugaev.

So there could be some political feelings running high at the border with the nationals of India and Nigeria, whom Ukraine have been training in their universities as engineers and doctors.

[quote roarfeckingroarr]@Motherofgorgons what bollocks. You're basing this on JRM?[/quote]
Johnson
JRM
Cameron
Various Tory peers whose names I can't remember.
Even outside the party posh rich white people tend to have plenty of children.
Jamie Oliver
Amanda Owen
The Beckhams.

I find the logic of large families in other cultures rather specious and I am neither Middle Eastern or African.

Cameron has three kids. What's Jamie Oliver got to do with anything?!

I am not going to argue with you. I have made my point. I find the rhetoric in the Telegraph and other media about the Ukrainians being just like us with Netflix and instagram and not an impoverished country" ( paraphrased bcos am on the Tube and can't link ) deeply troubling. If you think it's fine for people to only want to give refuge to Christians with similar values, whatever that means, carry on. Priti Patel thinks the same and she is not even Christian, so you are not alone. She would have been in trouble now.

I agree that it’s more about culture than colour. The public doesn’t want to grant visas to potentially sexist and homophobic individuals.

No, because people are cunts.

“Rolling my eyes at large African families when every bloody Tory party member either has 6 or 7 kids ( hard to keep track).”
How many does BJ have again? Does he even know.

@Moonmelodies

From what's been shown, it looks like refugees from Ukraine are mostly women, children, and the elderly. The men appear to be rolling their sleeves up and defending their homeland. The middle Eastern/African refugees that we are shown in the media appear to be mostly men running away.

This is unfair. Many are men leaving a hopeless environment to try to start afresh somewhere with better prospects. They have every right to try. But also understandable why some other countries, especially ones with a completely different culture, don’t want to take on large numbers of penniless, unemployable young men. Nothing necessarily to do with colour per se.

It won't increase empathy. A lot of the commentary has been along the lines of 'This is happening in civilized Europe', 'This isn't war torn syria or Afganistan' 'These refugees are very diffferent'. My personal favourite was the guy on BBC news who said seeing 'blonde haired and blue eyed' children being killed was upsetting him etc etc. Africans are also being denied safe passage at the Ukraine/Poland border.

I find it a very extreme perverse insight into the machinations of white supremacy. I can't stop watching/reading about it.

From what some people are saying, the reason why Ukrainians are better immigrants is not because they are mainly women and children and not mainly men. There I was thinking that the issue against immigrants wasn’t about gender politics but rather about strain on public services, changing the culture of places, not speaking English, etc.

You learn something new every time. We don’t like immigrants because they are the wrong gender and age. Wow. That makes perfect sense and explains all the animosity against brown and black immigrants. Just the wrong gender and age.

@Avarua

Middle East and African refugees come from cultures that hate women and often hate the Western way of life. It's not skin colour; it's culture.

You see when you get to the stage where an openly very racist comment can be made so casually like this one as a valid talking point you soon realise the ship sailed a long time ago.

Do these brown and black immigrants ever arrange for their children and spouses to join them? I thought they generally do. Is that still unacceptable or are we relieved when the women and children eventually make it safely here? If it’s the women and children we care about them presumably when they make it here safely, we accept them wholeheartedly, don’t we? Nope?

@Avarua

Middle East and African refugees come from cultures that hate women and often hate the Western way of life. It's not skin colour; it's culture.

Wow, casual racism here we are.

[quote ItsCanardBruv]@DenholmElliot sorry, completely off topic - but please reconsider your username. That man raped 1000s of children as young as 5 years old and gave them HIV.[/quote]
Sorry to also go off topic, however

Denholm Elliott was bisexual, married twice, and died of Aids related TB. Where were all those rapes reported? I remember him as a well known actor from years ago, but don’t remember a court case.

@goldfinchfan, I agree.

@Seymour5 Bangkok, dyor.