The invasion has begun

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Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

Oh, I've just listened to the ex ambassador to Russia saying pretty much the same thing, before you accuse me of anything.

Thumb witch

I'd be interested in seeing real evidence of that?
I don't doubt they have some clout but as far as ," holding the dollar by the throat" I doubt it.

What concerns me though is Putin must have some big backing somewhere?
He will have considered sanctions and what the West can do and he's gone ahead anyway.

Is it China whose backing him?

@Riverlee

Depressing.

Today was supposed to be the day we all relax slightly about covid, and to start ‘living with it’ rather than being afraid of it, and then this happens.

Another black cloud hanging over us.

I remember a thread at the start of covid, people asked "How and when will covid end" and a poster said "War", others jumped on her and told her she was being ridiculous. I bet she's saying told you!

It's nothing, i know. But I will be donating money to a Ukrainian based Animal Rescue.

People are going to die and be displaced in their droves and you're donating to an animal rescue.

I really don't understand some people.

Because world politics, influences, invassions and control for resources have nothing to do with democracy or the will of people. Those days are gone in all our countries

Tbh I don’t think those days ever really existed - it’s a fairytale.

I’m not convinced denying NATO entry to Ukraine now would stop him

And even if the indication they could join wasn’t there at all it’s unlikely he would divert from vision

Think about what he wants and is intent on

It starts with Ukrain. China will be eyeing up Taiwan. China will do the same with Taiwan and then there will be a domino effect - this is utterly terrifying. I firmly believe Putin has chosen his moment carefully. America is led by a weak puppet president. We are being led by a clown. What power does NATO have if it cannot stop the invasion of a peaceful Sovereign nation? I’m genuinely scared for my childrens safety and future.

China has been building up military bases and strength in the South China Sea despite the fact that they are international waters. They took democracy from Hong Kong despite promising that they wouldn't. Their sights are set on Taiwan which is seen as traditionally Chinese territory.
Despite increasingly aggressive acts, nobody here in Asia Pacific is willing to do anything. I'm in Australia and the ONLY thing that gives us any false comfort is that an alliance was recently signed between the US, Japan, India, the UK and Australia to handle the Chinese threat.
The US cannot fight on two fronts.
I really hope China is not planning a sneak attack because we are truly and utterly screwed if so.

I came downstairs this morning to my husband reminding me that Chernobyl is in Ukraine. Hopefully he wouldn't be stupid enough to hit something like that, but it's just so terrifying. I listened to the news this morning wondering if this was home my grandparents felt as they saw the start of the 2nd world war and the invasion into Czechoslovakia is their late teens / early twenties. This could esclate so quickly.

Should have added being neutral is well and good until you are invaded. Then not so much.

Cheese I really don't think Putin cares who or what we in the UK are led by.

Us definitely.

Trump was unstable and unpredictable I do not think he would have done this with trump.

He couldn't read trump.

The UK is a blip for Russia the EU has far more clout.

[quote Alexandra2001]@Alondra Agree, former UK ambassador to Russian said that the West didn't understand the importance of Ukraine to Russia.[/quote]
I agree. Most of us in the West have never understood or care about Russians, how they feel or psyche, let alone what Ukraine is for them - the birth of their homeland.

And because we think this is all bollocks, we end up where we are - with a few US multinational armament companies and a Murdoch controlled press telling us Russia is the devil like they've done before with Iraq, Afghanistan...or Chile and Vietnam before then.

@Chocaholic9 is the former UK ambassador a Russian bot too ?

"west unwilling to recognise importance of this to Putin in talks before military action in Ukraine"

Trump considered withdrawing from NATO and (in broad terms) appeared to admire Putin. He's really not the answer.

www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.amp.html

Someone was telling me years ago that Putin/Russia held the dollar by the throat and could destroy its value if they stopped using it and switched to the Euro instead.

My undertanding is that part of the value of the dollar is that everyone agrees totally with what it's worth. Therefore, it is a safe currency to trade in, even for those countries with their own currency. It remains stable and so does not fluctuate in value too much. So part of it's value is that everyone sees it as a global currency, so it's always worth having dollars because dollars are a safe bet.

So Russia trades in US dollars. All it's resources are priced in dollars. This benefits them but also benefit the US dollar because Russia is a massive trading entitity so lends weight to the 'global currency' viewpoint.

IF Russia chooses to not trade in US dollars, it may convince key trading partners not to also. So, when a number of countries no longer use US dollars are their stable currency, it gets less stable and less global as a result. And looses value because of it.

I suppose it's not so clear cut in that the US could choose ot to allow Russia to trade in US dollars, if the EU do the same with Euros, what stable currency can Russia trade in? Yen? Yuan? Does that hurt them to do so? I'm not sure...

The UK is a blip for Russia the EU has far more clout

..and the EU would have even more clout if we were still in it 7 who have we got to thank for that gem of stupidity?

Putin, like his countrymen's greatest chess players has been playing the long game, manipulating the West for many years.

My worry is if he takes over the whole of Ukraine then what happens. We can't continue with sanctions forever. If we just let him do it then China will see that as the west being weak and will do the same to Taiwan. I don't want a world war but doing nothing apart from sanctions that he would already have taken into consideration is not a detterant :(

came downstairs this morning to my husband reminding me that Chernobyl is in Ukraine. Hopefully he wouldn't be stupid enough to hit something like that, but it's just so terrifying

Yes, I was thinking this too. it is quite close to Belarus and the western side, but it's also not far from Kyiv, so could be caught in attacks. Lets hope it isn't.

@Tigersonvaseline

Lol I'd rather vote in Kermit the frog 🐸 than have Corbyn at the helm.

I’m not a Corbyn fan but I am pretty confident that neither him nor Kermit the frog are under the influence (at a minimum) of Russia Johnson and his cronies on the other hand

If we just let him do it then China will see that as the west being weak and will do the same to Taiwan

China knows that we can't stop them if they decide to invade Taiwan. There are probably other reasons they don't do it, despite all the sabre-rattling.

I have friends who live in Poland, bordering Belarus and the Ukraine. They are now scared. Poland is an EU and NATO country but they are still worried. Poland does not have many weapons or military capability of its own. One good thing that may come of this is that Polish politicians will wake up and be more pro EU again.
Meanwhile, India has a massive defence contract with Russia which it heavily relies on. China willl only benefit if it stays out of the conflict and let’s the West deal with it.
Unfortunately I really think there is nothing that can be done at this stage other than strengthen NATO countries bordering the Ukraine and talking to countries like India and China too to come up with red lines if Putin goes any further.

Putin watched the Taliban take back Afghanistan in weeks and unless the whole world steps in straight away, Ukraine will be Russian in days.

What about Moldova? Can anyone comment on that?

@Ramalamadingdongs

It's nothing, i know. But I will be donating money to a Ukrainian based Animal Rescue.

People are going to die and be displaced in their droves and you're donating to an animal rescue.

I really don't understand some people.

And I, genuinely, never understand why people get so het up about what someone else does with their chariable giving.

Absolutely and by all means, focus your own on the things you hold to be most important - and those priorities may well match my own - but I cannot berate someone for trying to do some good but not doing it in exactly the way I would do it, if it were my money.

There are so many deeply important causes, that it becomes a relief, to me, that everyone prioritises what they can give differently.

The anti-Chinese rhetoric is really the most unhelpful in all of this.

The West needs to work with countries like China and India.