The invasion has begun

[Damnloginpopup]

Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

@cardiologist349275

Russian soldiers are something else. At the end of WW2 a lot of German women committed suicide rather than be raped to death by the invading Russians. They are barbaric.

You know that the active Russian service men in 1945 are pretty much all dead now, right?

As you’re a fan of WW2 history, you’ll know that the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police set up by Himmler are widely considered to be one of the most brutal and enthusiastic forces in following Nazi orders.

So should we conclude that we don’t need to worry, the UA men of today can hold their own against the raping Russians?

Or maybe consider that it’s 77 years on and sweeping statement don’t all apply now?

@TirisfalPumpkin

Awful.

I think Putin is legacy-building. He's pushing 70 and doesn't really have any great conquests or achievements in line with the tradition of Russian leaders he places himself within. I have a suspicion he's not in the best of health either with all the performative manly-man hunting pics, etc.

Interesting Twitter thread from Konstantin Kisin:

twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1496133062295437313

Not sure I entirely agree with him about the imminent collapse of the West, but I think he's right that we're a bit myopic/optimistic and thinking the strongman mindset has died out everywhere, where in a lot of the world it's still the norm and 'but democracy! human rights!' is essentially meaningless.

Oh totally agree with this, been saying to my husband, he’s going to be 70 soon and all he’s done is nick a lot of money but nothing significant that would be a legacy.

[quote Bellalastrasse]@GallopingHighRoad

‘ The amount of Russian money that has been invested into London real estate (and into French property also) is staggering. This is not all owned by oligarchs close to Putin. Nobody knows the full extent because it mostly comes through layers of offshore trusts and companies in the Caribbean, Mediterranean and Switzerland. There is little sanction that will be brought against real estate, because in practice it does not have the immediacy that blocking $100m in a deposit account does. There will be little appetite to block personal funds for the reason that it alienates those who may hold different ‘

But they will counter argue that they will withdraw their money from real estate, etc if we impose any sanctions on them. The money in our infrastructure is so crucial to our economy now, isn’t it? Or have I got that wrong?

My thought is that if someone imposed a partial sanction on a Russian in London all they have to say is ‘fine, I’ll just stop funding x, y and z’ whilst I’m at it.[/quote]
Despite being one of the easiest countries in the world in which to invest, particularly when it comes to real estate, it would be impossible for tens of billions of $ worth of money to be extracted from London, Paris or the Riviera in the space of 5 years, let alone a shorter period of the coming year. The money is embedded in our economy for the medium term at least (15 years or so). Fluid working capital is what keeps economies strong and hiding money in real estate is not that. Most Russian investors will be unaffected through property held here. In some ways, if they are anti the Russian regime, they may take comfort from knowing their wealth is on 'long term deposit' and out of reach from Russian nationalistic interference.

aking out even one prominent individual can have enormous repercussions, so they can't just go around assassinating problematic individuals

I think you will find that can most definitely happen when the whole world is at stake and being threatened with nuclear weapons. I think you will find that the safety of billions comes well before a singular problematic person.

Seeing Putin on the news today was truly chilling. Do not interfere he told us (The West).

He is a very strong, charismatic leader, I'll give him that. Who have we got? That buffoon Johnson and one-foot-in-the-grave Biden.

Aside, from the appalling humanitarian issue, we can all expect soaring gas/oil prices. Very worrying times.

@Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase

If you think about it the pandemic has distracted the worlds eyes away from the build up to this. Also if it was a man made virus then who knows what else could be unleashed. It feels like we are living in very strange times.

The pandemic have not distracted the military intelligence but the last couple of very tough years have made sure we don't really care whats happening in the Ukraine despite news. We are done with bad news and don't want to hear more crap.....and in this sense Putin got it right when to strike.

Most people care about their families, their wages, their electricity billls, cost of groceries and petrol. Everyone support Ukranians until we are all hit with triple electricity bills and basic groceries double in price - then no one cares about what's happening 10,000km away and we want our bills DOWN.

As to your suggestion that this could have been a man made virus, I strongly advise you to look into wetland killing fauna and microfarming. It's not only horrific but why more serious viruses - animal to human are going to happen in the future.

@Bunnyfuller

Sanctions will not stop this.

Read this - it’s translated, very long but it makes it quite clear this is only the start.

en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828

What a time to be alive

Please can you summarise

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

The UK is not small fry, is has a powerful army and navy with nuclear weapons, of which I am glad we now have. The EU/US/NATO combined would defeat the Russians over night if needed.

You are wrong. The UK military is underfunded, has been for many years, and has been stripped back to the point where we essentially no longer have an especially credible 'traditional' war fighting force when viewed in the context of the world stage. Yes, they're highly trained, but there simply aren't enough of them. Our nuclear weapons are also old and outdated. Putin has invested heavily in Russian military power for many, many years, admittedly at the expense of their wider economy. Their military power outweighs our own and he's proven thus far that he's not afraid to wield it. Anyone who underestimates that is extremely foolish. It's not World War II, pip pip chaps, over the top, good British patriotism and fighting spirit will win out. That kind of narrative is unhelpful in understanding the situation.

We haven't been distracted from this though, the warning signs have been around for ages. People ignore them. Like the film ' Don't Look Up'. There was a similar thread a week or so ago and people who were worried about a Russian invasion of Ukraine were almost sneered at by many who dismissed it out of hand, stating Putin will never invade Ukraine.

It was a month ago!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4459369-To-be-worried-about-war

Omg and you don't think all these gorillas like flattery!!
He was flattering Kim also and then boasting how he had bigger weapons

Despite people talking about China on here, I don't think China will be impressed with the nuclear drills nor with the invasion and destabilisation. It is not in their interests and I would imagine they will be distancing themselves from an unstable leader that has gone rogue, it is not a good look for them. They are considered country, one that puts their economic growth above all else - this development will not be as welcome as some people might believe. China does not trust Russia, it never has, and it has no reason to start doing so after this...

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

The UK is not small fry, is has a powerful army and navy with nuclear weapons, of which I am glad we now have. The EU/US/NATO combined would defeat the Russians over night if needed.

Britain has 82,000 soldiers. Russia has 900,000.

Britain has 215 nuclear weapons. Russia has 6,200, more than any other country in the world.

I appreciate your patriotism, but I don’t think you should let it slide into delusion: that is a very dangerous path.

(We won WW2 because Russia was on our side. For every American conflict who died fighting Nazi Germany, 80 Russian soldiers died. Three quarters of Germany’s losses in WW2 were from fighting the Russians.)

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Despite people talking about China on here, I don't think China will be impressed with the nuclear drills nor with the invasion and destabilisation. It is not in their interests and I would imagine they will be distancing themselves from an unstable leader that has gone rogue, it is not a good look for them. They are considered country, one that puts their economic growth above all else - this development will not be as welcome as some people might believe. China does not trust Russia, it never has, and it has no reason to start doing so after this...

I can't see the Chinese government being happy with current events. They obviously view Russia as an important ally but they also have previously stated that one country shouldn't interfere in another a country's internal affairs (as they don't want interference in their own country's way of doing things) - you can't get much more interfering than actually invading...

We didn’t win WWII, the allies together did. Fwiw general perception of our involvement in WWII is also greatly inflated.

Domestically it was a huge event, internationally we weren’t even close to the biggest players involved.

I might add that the UK has the whole of NATO, the US (The biggest and best army in the world) and Europe. Russia will be no match for a coordinated response from the West.

I would appreciate your patriotism in return, but I am afraid cold blooded killers do not get my vote, and those that support this mad man and his nuclear threats.

It is not in their interests and I would imagine they will be distancing themselves from an unstable leader that has gone rogue

I would keep an eye on China. Xi Jinping is on a similar road to Putin - he wants full reunification too and by 2049. Watching how the world responds to Russia now might be very useful for him.

And I would add that wars are not really fought on the ground anymore wind as you might well know...there are many ways to win a war without involving a single soldier. 900,000 won't help - god help them.

I've just seen a tweet saying that Ukranian mothers are putting stickers on their children's coats showing their blood type.

Even if it's not true...good grief, that's grim.

If we're as well prepared on the defence front as we were for a potential pandemic, then we're in serious trouble.

The information might be useful to China, but the creditability factor not so much, they certainly won't want to be seen to be associated with Europe's new Hitler. China has much to lose, and now they have the option of standing back and staying out of it, there is too much skin in the game. China has already suffered severe damage to her reputation and respect around the world with covid, they certainly don't need to be linked to an illegal invasion of a perfectly peaceful democratic country!

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I've just seen a tweet saying that Ukranian mothers are putting stickers on their children's coats showing their blood type.

Even if it's not true...good grief, that's grim.

I'm impressed they even know that. I don't know my kids blood type

(We won WW2 because Russia was on our side. For every American conflict who died fighting Nazi Germany, 80 Russian soldiers died. Three quarters of Germany’s losses in WW2 were from fighting the Russians.)

Without Russia and the millions of Russians who died stopping the Nazis' on the Eastern Front, Germany would have likely won WW2.

A

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Actually, lots of Russians hate what they see as the West’s interference, and how they no longer have Great Mother Russia. Remember, we’re only seeing the information our Govt. wants us to, the same as theirs.

The Tory Govt and Brexit had huge injections of funds from Russia. Putin was jubilant when we left the EU as it weakened us and weakened Europe. He’s been building forces, reducing reliance on western finance systems, and utilising all sorts of covert methods and misinformation psyops to test, probe and disrupt the West in subtle ways.

We have family in Russia, and from their perspective NATO and the US are land-grabbing and it’s time to push back. I’m not sure who is right, but am deeply concerned as to how this is going to develop. Without military intervention this is just the start, and Latvia has already pushed their panic button.

I can't see having Bojo as our PM will work well for us. He's too 'open gob and worry about the consequences later'.

We need a thinker at the help more than ever now.

Russian internal news are selling this as a peacemaking exercise and that they were requested to assist by the independent eastern states of Ukraine.