New job wants my pronouns and I'll admit, I don't get it

[Igloo71]

Just to be straight up here, I will be doing what new employer has asked of me and provide my pronoun, this is more of a I don't get it thread...

So, new job for a national charity has shown me the standard footer text for emails, which includes pronouns. OK I'll admit, my instant reaction is that it feels a bit cringe, but just to give you a bigger picture, I'm very pro rights of all (this is a huge part of my job) so I will 100% comply.

But, now that it's been asked of me, it feels like someone is telling me to put Mrs/Miss/Ms in my footer which surely never happens, does it? Who cares if I'm married, so why would anyone care if I'm he/her? Why, just why?? I'd love to ask, but then it would sound like I'm questioning an entirely other rationale which I'm absolutely not.

Can anyone enlighten me?

I received the same email at work. I've put:

My Name (Pronouns: sex based)

If I'm asked in an online meeting to share my pronouns my stock answer is:

I'm a woman. Use whatever pronouns you feel are appropriate based on that information.

@HelpMeHiveMind

What happens if you Identify as Non-Identifying? In which case, it would be discriminatory against your rights to make you share pronouns, would it not (in the same way that there is often a "prefer not to say" option for gender / sexual preference/ race / religion on surveys)

Love ❤ it

@valadon68

OP, with all my respect, you say you're pro rights of all, but some of these rights are in conflict with others. Plus many aspects of self-ID that are under public discussion, like whether to force people to cite their pronouns (and effectively then to ID as someone who feels gender identity is a legitimate basis for the defintion of womanhood and manhood), have nothing to do with legal rights but more with custom and what counts as acceptable in people's minds i.e. the things we can't formally inscribe in law. And I'm not sure it's always ethical to be pro rights as a general principle without examining what those rights are - because generally when people talk about trans rights, they're talking about rights which are being proposed and requested. And quite often when they say they're pro trans rights, no debate, they're saying anything that is being demanded under that rubric is legit because it's being demanded by a certain group, rather than because it's survived the democratic process. Surely not, though?

I doubt my company would ask for this as management is fair-minded and allows for variety of thought among employees, but if they did, I would just say that I would rather not, for several reasons. If asked to explain, I would say a) I don't want to draw people's attention to my sex category, b) it puts pressure on people to out themselves as trans or gender-critical and c) I don't want to normalise self ID into sex categories. But I can see it would be much more complicated to say stuff like that where you work.

I've been thinking about your comment, thank you, and how what you say relates to my role and it's an interesting argument. I guess what I was trying to say was that my role (and again I'm trying not to out myself or the charity concerned) is about assuming everyone who uses the service is who they say there. It's not my job to declare or investigate otherwise. So this position was where I was coming from - the rights of all. I'm dealing with people who escape or leave their homes for a wide variety of reasons - if it's linked to their sexuality or gender, it's not my role to question, just to support.

However, within the bigger picture, I completely see the points you raised. In many ways, we need debates like this. I'm very open minded on not assuming my position is the right position. I've seen and heard enough about injustice to realise that's the starting point for so much that's bad in the world.

What doesn't sit comfortably with me is that attaching a gender to me as an employee feels on a par with my marital status, or religion if I had one. It's just not relevant and it's not the only thing that defines me. I'm me and that goes way beyond my gender, it's my beliefs, my values, loads of other stuff.

It kind of blows gender neutralism (which the workplace should be if we want equality) out of the water if we’re now expected to gender ourselves like this doesn’t it.

Batshit.

Work ask me this every year and every year I tell them that gender is a social construct which oppresses both sexes and I don’t subscribe to any gender. They never enquire any further until the form gets sent out to all the following year.

“I’m sorry (sweet smile) I don’t use these”

@WonderfulYou

But, now that it's been asked of me, it feels like someone is telling me to put Mrs/Miss/Ms in my footer which surely never happens, does it?

Every form I’ve had to fill in, job I’ve worked in etc has always asked my title - it’s never bothered me but I know some people can get upset about it.

I guess I have a feminine name so it’s not such an issue but a man I work with gets very upset if you say Mr when his title is Dr.

But this isn't about the forms I filled in when I applied for the job. I never use Mrs (I'm married) when I'm referring to myself professionally. It's just my name. And I'd certainly not put Mrs in my email footer - does anybody do that?? Outside of teaching anyway.

The MAT my school is part of has requested we put our pronouns in our email signatures. Surely Miss/Mrs/Ms/Mr gives them away!

Maybe it's not actually going far enough and we should be pushing for more on our email signatures......

Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat
She/her / Tea Drinker / Cat Lover / Meat Eater / Introvert / Waitrose Shopper / VW Driver / iOS

Quite often I would find it very helpful to know how someone wants to be referred to as we seem to have a million Alex/Sam/Jo people at work.
Isn’t Ms what you use if you want to avoid disclosing marital status as a woman? Could you use that?
As for the he/she/they thing it doesn’t really bother me but I guess if it’s an issue for you then you are equally entitled to explain to your employer why you don’t want to use it?
My main worry with this in the work place is whether I will be able to retrain myself if and when I work with someone who wants me to use «they» or «zhe» etc. I’m no spring chicken and I’m just worried I will never get the hang of it and end up causing offence.

I find it difficult when I genuinely don't know someone's gender to know how to refer to them. It's just useful to know so that you don't offend them.

My main worry with this in the work place is whether I will be able to retrain myself if and when I work with someone who wants me to use «they» or «zhe» etc. I’m no spring chicken and I’m just worried I will never get the hang of it and end up causing offence.

Exactly. I do think it's awfully rude to expect people to remember this, imagine if there are a lot of employees with different imaginative pronouns as per the extremely long list posted on the other thread?
Or just people who look like their sex, make no effort to look as if they have transitioned in any meaningful way, but we are expected to remember? Or those who change for different days of the week? It's ridiculous. Why should people who just want to turn up to work and do their job well tiptoe around on eggshells for fear of offending a colleague?
I'm terrible at names, the chances of me remembering pronouns are minimal.
And sometimes the wrong name just pops out of my mouth for no good reason. Our receptionist is called Lyn. One day I walked in and said "Hello Jen". I don't even know anyone called Jen. Recently I acquired a new neighbour who is also called Lyn. You guessed it. I have now started calling her Jen.

Put you/you/your on it and see if anyone says anything.

I put my pronouns to show allyship to those who chose pronouns other than those attributed at birth - he/him she/her. I also find it helpful to not address someone incorrectly. If you don't want to include them check your policy it is probably voluntary. If so you can just say I would prefer not to include my pronouns thank you.

But @Thefrenchconnection1 how would you come to address someone incorrectly? If you are speaking to them, why would you use any pronoun other than you or your?

@DoreenWinkings

I would put he/him.

I mean I'm female, 'present' as female whatever the fuck that means, have a female name etc etc but if I'm going to be forced to join in with this sort of insane mind fuckery then I'll chose whichever pronouns get treated with the most respect in the workplace -and that's the male ones.

Actually it would be interesting to see what would happen if more of us would grit our teeth and just put he/him.

I dislike the fact that many people who comply with this don't understand it and it's become so insidious that no-one questions or thinks for themselves.

When you sign up to social media sites it's added as a regular "field" and most people "comply" without thinking.

@Igloo71

Just to be straight up here, I will be doing what new employer has asked of me and provide my pronoun, this is more of a I don't get it thread...

So, new job for a national charity has shown me the standard footer text for emails, which includes pronouns. OK I'll admit, my instant reaction is that it feels a bit cringe, but just to give you a bigger picture, I'm very pro rights of all (this is a huge part of my job) so I will 100% comply.

But, now that it's been asked of me, it feels like someone is telling me to put Mrs/Miss/Ms in my footer which surely never happens, does it? Who cares if I'm married, so why would anyone care if I'm he/her? Why, just why?? I'd love to ask, but then it would sound like I'm questioning an entirely other rationale which I'm absolutely not.

Can anyone enlighten me?

by getting everyone, including cis people, to share their pronouns it makes your work enviroment a safer space for people who do use different pronouns, it is not a great big deal and by taking these small steps which barley effect you, you can be making trans peoples lives a lot easier :)

it makes your work enviroment a safer space for people who do use different pronouns

In what way would my workplace be ‘safer’ for trans people if I add my pronouns?

I don't wish harm to anybody but the people I want to protect are women. That's who I'll show ''solidarity'' with if I'm asked.