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Original poster

New job wants my pronouns and I'll admit, I don't get it

119 replies

Igloo71 · 21/01/2022 13:16

Just to be straight up here, I will be doing what new employer has asked of me and provide my pronoun, this is more of a I don't get it thread...

So, new job for a national charity has shown me the standard footer text for emails, which includes pronouns. OK I'll admit, my instant reaction is that it feels a bit cringe, but just to give you a bigger picture, I'm very pro rights of all (this is a huge part of my job) so I will 100% comply.

But, now that it's been asked of me, it feels like someone is telling me to put Mrs/Miss/Ms in my footer which surely never happens, does it? Who cares if I'm married, so why would anyone care if I'm he/her? Why, just why?? I'd love to ask, but then it would sound like I'm questioning an entirely other rationale which I'm absolutely not.

Can anyone enlighten me?

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 21/01/2022 13:43

@KurtWilde

Isn't it more polite to just use peoples names? Then there is no issue.

Think how ridiculous this would sound in practice:

"Kurt would like to meet with you at 4pm because Kurt wants to discuss next weeks quota. Kurt also asked that you knock before entering the office because Kurt may be on a call"

It's literally taught to primary age children that we use a pronoun instead of constantly repeating the name of the person/dog/car/whatever to make conversation flow better. Because it sounds bloody stupid otherwise.

"Kurt would like to meet with you at 4pm to discuss next weeks quota. Please remember to knock before entering the office in case a call is going on."

Language is endlessly adaptable.

Original poster
Igloo71 · 21/01/2022 13:44

@NoSquirrels

The rationale is that it normalises people who might need to announce their pronouns (because the ones they’d prefer to use don’t happily fit their appearance, for example). So it’s to signal you’re an ‘ally’ for trans people.

I think it’s regressive personally because as you point out we’ve moved on from announcing our marital status or thinking sex should be a defining factor in professional workplaces so I don’t think announcing gender is a great thing. And I don’t really believe in gender anyway.

I’m a bit worried a central part of your job is being ‘pro rights for all’ but you don’t understand any of the arguments around this stuff though.

I think you're missing my point. What I do for a job is about THEM not me.
OP posts:
RussianSpy101 · 21/01/2022 13:44

Misgendered? You can’t misgender someone.
People are either male or female. It’s really simple biology.

purpleboy · 21/01/2022 13:46

What happens if you read the other thread and agree with all the reasons for not doing it? Would you go against what your company is asking or will you use them knowing that you don't fully agree with the reasons for it?

UserBot999 · 21/01/2022 13:46

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Just put 'he/zhe/it/them'

That'll confuse them 😄

Im in Ireland, I'll slow any request to display my pronouns with a request that ze/zim be translated as gaelige 😆
Chloemol · 21/01/2022 13:46

I would simply put pronoun/Chloemol

Then they can use my name all the time! Chloemol did this and chloemol is wonderful rather than Chloemol did this and she is wonderful

If they are going down this rabbit hole then i am all for making it difficult for them

FKATondelayo · 21/01/2022 13:47

You don't have to do this. It's regressive and may constitute indirect discrimination on the basis of sex, gender reassignment, religion or belief and sexual orientation. Just say that you don't observe or practice this.

I remember reading something by a gender non conforming lesbian whose woke colleagues kept asking about what her pronouns were or calling her 'they'. It's homophobic and sexist as fuck.

Read also about 'stereotype threat' - continual reminders of your sex in a workplace, academic or professional context contribute to sexist stereotyping and internalised misogyny.

Nancydrawn · 21/01/2022 13:47

Most people who identify themselves as very pro rights of all (this is a huge part of my job) don't usually use the word woke.

Personally, I don't include pronouns. I'd say about a third of my company does (relatively few of whom are trans/nonbinary, though some are) and the rest aren't--it's left up to us to decide. But I also don't know many people who take about being allies and also use 'woke' pejoratively.

Warblerinwinter · 21/01/2022 13:47

I would just answer that I won’t be drawing attention to my SEX as in my experience it encourages bias and gender stereotypes. Thank you

Same goes for Ms, Mrs, Miss in professional setting.

And I mostly outside of work on official communications with companies, Gov etc don’t use my full name, just initials to avoid people knowing I’m a women. I get taken more seriously that way. I know that as they always reply to Mr winter 🤷🏼‍♀️🤦‍♀️

valadon68 · 21/01/2022 13:47

OP, with all my respect, you say you're pro rights of all, but some of these rights are in conflict with others. Plus many aspects of self-ID that are under public discussion, like whether to force people to cite their pronouns (and effectively then to ID as someone who feels gender identity is a legitimate basis for the defintion of womanhood and manhood), have nothing to do with legal rights but more with custom and what counts as acceptable in people's minds i.e. the things we can't formally inscribe in law. And I'm not sure it's always ethical to be pro rights as a general principle without examining what those rights are - because generally when people talk about trans rights, they're talking about rights which are being proposed and requested. And quite often when they say they're pro trans rights, no debate, they're saying anything that is being demanded under that rubric is legit because it's being demanded by a certain group, rather than because it's survived the democratic process. Surely not, though?

I doubt my company would ask for this as management is fair-minded and allows for variety of thought among employees, but if they did, I would just say that I would rather not, for several reasons. If asked to explain, I would say a) I don't want to draw people's attention to my sex category, b) it puts pressure on people to out themselves as trans or gender-critical and c) I don't want to normalise self ID into sex categories. But I can see it would be much more complicated to say stuff like that where you work.

Ted27 · 21/01/2022 13:47

@KurtWilde

Or you could just say

Kurt would like to meet you at 4 to discuss next week's quotas. It's best to knock on the door first so you don't interrupt any phone calls

FKATondelayo · 21/01/2022 13:48

Also ask to see their GDPR policy and ask how wanting to know irrelevant and personal details about an employee complies with data protection.

UserBot999 · 21/01/2022 13:49

@gsaoej

I'd just write in the signature "Pronouns" and leave it at that. They want pronouns included, you include the word
Perfect. And if they push it, id say "my names louise so it's ok".

And keep saying its ok thank you

Original poster
Igloo71 · 21/01/2022 13:52

@purpleboy

What happens if you read the other thread and agree with all the reasons for not doing it? Would you go against what your company is asking or will you use them knowing that you don't fully agree with the reasons for it?
That's an interesting question to ponder and you're right to ask that of me.

I'd guess my gut feeling is that what's important for me is the service I provide professionally to very marginalised groups of people who might not have a voice within a system or a process (trying not to out myself). I'm there as an enabler, so I guess in the grand scheme of things everything to do with ME is irrelevant, even my name!

OP posts:
FindingMeno · 21/01/2022 13:54

What does pronouns mean?
Bloody glad I work in a face to face communication job where you can call everyone mate.

HollowTalk · 21/01/2022 13:56

It's virtue signalling. I'd tell them you don't want to out yourself.

I'm sure that in many organisations there are spiteful people waiting with baited breath to see which pronouns a particular person will use.

Beamur · 21/01/2022 13:56

It shouldn't be mandatory.
Personally I think it's akin to asking you to put marital status or religion in too.
Where I work it's a neutral choice whether you add them or not. I have chosen not to.
For some people this is a non- issue and for others it a very hot political issue. I guess you have to consider what also is an appropriate approach for your clients. For some people seeing you put pro-nouns will reassure them, others will find it alienating.
If you can't avoid having something in your email, which frankly seems quite intrusive for you, could you use something like 'any' as an option?

CraftyGin · 21/01/2022 13:57

@Igloo71

Just to be straight up here, I will be doing what new employer has asked of me and provide my pronoun, this is more of a I don't get it thread...

So, new job for a national charity has shown me the standard footer text for emails, which includes pronouns. OK I'll admit, my instant reaction is that it feels a bit cringe, but just to give you a bigger picture, I'm very pro rights of all (this is a huge part of my job) so I will 100% comply.

But, now that it's been asked of me, it feels like someone is telling me to put Mrs/Miss/Ms in my footer which surely never happens, does it? Who cares if I'm married, so why would anyone care if I'm he/her? Why, just why?? I'd love to ask, but then it would sound like I'm questioning an entirely other rationale which I'm absolutely not.

Can anyone enlighten me?

I think they mean "she/her", or whatever applies to you.
KatherineJaneway · 21/01/2022 14:03

@Notwithittoday

This has started in my workplace too
I just deleted that part out of my signature. Job done.
DoreenWinkings · 21/01/2022 14:03

I would put he/him.

I mean I'm female, 'present' as female whatever the fuck that means, have a female name etc etc but if I'm going to be forced to join in with this sort of insane mind fuckery then I'll chose whichever pronouns get treated with the most respect in the workplace -and that's the male ones.

TimBoothseyes · 21/01/2022 14:04

I just put my first name/my first name. If anyone wants to talk about me they can use that rather than she/her. As my mother always said "who's "she"? The cat's mother?"

SerendipityJane · 21/01/2022 14:08

just say my pronoun is "CEO"

Frogsonglue · 21/01/2022 14:10

I've a feeling my new employer is going to ask me to do this. I'm going to politely say I'd prefer not to, thanks, and if pushed I will say my reasons are personal. I hope there won't be anything more to it than that.

IntermittentParps · 21/01/2022 14:11

I would just answer that I won’t be drawing attention to my SEX as in my experience it encourages bias and gender stereotypes. Thank you

Absolutely this.

peaceanddove · 21/01/2022 14:13

I would put 'Goddess'.