Just so concerned about this country

[ninnynonny]

To be honest, we, as a family are 'ok'. We're by no means well off but have a reasonable income and not huge outgoings (at the moment); but I am so worried about the state of the country economically. Just watching the national and local news today - the cost of living is insane; the Government is a huge mess - with no sign of any of them giving a monkeys about the populus, and so many thousands of people are struggling and will be in a terrible position over the next few months.
How on earth is this sustainable? What is going to happen when people simply cannot afford to, well, live, basically.
I work in the homelessness sector and can only see more families and individuals coming through the doors - and with massive funding cuts, honestly, what will happen?
I'm feeling a little hysterical over it all, for want of a better word!!
Will things improve - what has to happen?

I should never have popped on here after a late end to my day. So much for getting to bed!

Some very slippery road eugenics comments on here. Posters talking about euthanasing 'the old people' or shipping them out to Bulgaria or Romania. I'm a strong advocate of consensual assisted suicide and euthanasia - but not as a replacement for a civilised society providing the essentials of food, shelter, warmth, and care.

What next? The ill and disabled? Single parents? Refugees?

Meanwhile, the world's richest have got richer. Billionaires with more money than they will ever possibly need.

Btw, who cares for the elderly who are shipped out to other countries? Romania and Bulgaria have already suffered the consequences of countries like the UK plundering their young. Whole villages and communities were left with mainly children and elderly.

Oh and also. Many of today's elderly are the Windrush generation. So basically migrants are wanted for their (cheap exploitable) labour and enrichment of slum beds in sheds labour...but then tossed aside like a piece of rubbish when they can longer make someone money? No, that's not ok.

New housing developments pop up all the time though, demand outstrips supply. Very little social housing, developers don’t want it (they have to have some, but it’s not enough).

Yep the same round my way. I walked past a local development the other day advertising as 'luxury' flats. There's a huge waiting list for social housing here.

A mass social housing build is the answer to many of the problems. It would be expensive upfront but longer term save the taxpayer billions and billions in both direct and indirect costs - and go a long way towards tackling social problems, community cohesion, and low wages (which wouldn't be too low with genuinely affordable housing)

@Tealightsandd erm those suggestions were not meant to be taken seriously! It was sarcastic. But actually it is becoming reality. It's strange but somehow it may be that the older people who didn't want Bulgarians and Romanians coming over here...may actually end up in Romanian and Bulgarian care homes because the care system is broken and no one is really interested to solve it. I think Thailand would probably be a popular option in the future.

I am just giving examples of low tax alternatives if the public doesn't wish to pay the taxes required to care for our elderly.

Mobile phones, sky packages, clothing and furniture catalogues, fillers/Botox ARE essential to a growing number of people. They NEED those things, they prioritise them over things like rent, food and utilities.

Well mobile phones kind of are nowadays. For basic communication including medical appointments, but also to claim benefits.

As for the rest, it's a generalisation. Huge numbers of people who are struggling do not have any of these.

And those who do? When life is a long relentless tough grind, people need something to look forward to or enjoy.

Governments have banned or made difficult all the alternatives - things that humans have used for comfort or stress relief for hundreds of years.

Various drugs including opium, cigarettes, etc. Not everyone is like the Downing Street staff. Alcohol isn't for everybody. Some prefer TV or a beauty treatment.

But like I said, for many that's not possible. There's no money - or credit available - for many of the worst off.

Now if you're a wealthy furlough fraudster. Well then you can cost the taxpayer billions and get it written off.

but somehow it may be that the older people who didn't want Bulgarians and Romanians coming over here

Why are you suggesting that older people didn't want immigrants? It happened under their watch and votes. And many of today's elderly are some of those migrants.

Have you asked the Bulgarian and Romanian governments what they think btw? They have their own elderly to care for... which is a struggle thanks to our plunder of their young.

I am just giving examples of low tax alternatives if the public doesn't wish to pay the taxes required to care for our elderly.

Our elderly have paid income tax for 50 years. They deserve a bit back.

If the public doesn't wish to pay tax - to fund good public services, including housing, healthcare, social services, criminal justice system, and care and support for the elderly, disabled, and refugees, then perhaps we need to stop telling people not to smoke "because it shortens your life".

We can't have it both ways. Either we take the smoking tax and shorter life expectancies, or we pay higher tax to cover the loss of smoking revenue.

But anyway, endemic Covid will see many more with underlying conditions - therefore shortening life expectancies.

But why do we need immigrants to do healthcare / care fort he elderly? Can't homegrown Brits do it?

Also like I said, a mass social housing build would solve a lot of problems.

The public health housing and homelessness emergency costs the public - the taxpayer - a huge amount of money. Billions and billions every year.

Add in reducing student numbers. Billions of taxpayer money will never be repaid - because a significant proportion of graduates go into the same jobs they would have done 30/40 years ago at 16 or 18.

@immersivereader

But why do we need immigrants to do healthcare / care fort he elderly? Can't homegrown Brits do it?

They can.

We need to give decent training, pay, and working conditions. And affordable stable housing. Whether British or migrant.

It's not ok to exploit cheap labour. British or migrant both deserve decent employment and housing (eg. not beds in sheds).

There will also be robots to do some of the work.

@immersivereader caring is hard work for little pay. If you have better options, why wouldn't you take it up. Not all locals have better options but enough of them do...the unemployment rate is actually quite low for a developed country. Of all the people who are long term unemployed, most are not actively looking for jobs as they have other commitments. You cannot force people to apply for jobs they don't want. Perhaps if you increase pay and improve conditions, that may make care work an attractive career but as the care home sector is largely privately run, the profit incentive means that care homes would rather their staff be poorly paid...

@Tealightsandd problem is British people don't want to live in social housing. Which is why they don't support it. They want to own their own house with garden. In the post war consensus, a lot of social housing was built because housing was destroyed and it was less common to own your home. In the UK today, there are people on low incomes who own homes, and that is regarded as totally normal..

In Singapore, people support government housing because 85% of people own their government flats. There is no stigma..in UK, there is a stigma about living in council housing....people don't generally want to fund things they already look down on.

It's my theory why people don't care for the poor- it's because they fear poverty. Hence they want nothing to do with it or to understand it. Far from sight, far from mind. Seeing poverty reminds us of our own vulnerability. And if you are a type A achiever, that can be humbling.

I would welcome the Singapore model (and, separately, their infection control mitigations).

The stigma can be broken - with the right reporting and messaging. We have a government that has managed to successfully persuade large swathes of the British public that 350 dead in just one day from Covid is a low number. And the long term disability risk of Long Covid is largely being ignored (a ticking time bomb wrt lost income tax, and increased demand on health and social care socials).

But anyway tbh I don't think that as many people are against social housing as is often thought. Particularly as the public health housing emergency hits inreasing numbers of families or their adult children/grandchildren.

It's my theory why people don't care for the poor- it's because they fear poverty. Hence they want nothing to do with it or to understand it. Far from sight, far from mind. Seeing poverty reminds us of our own vulnerability. And if you are a type A achiever, that can be humbling.

I think you're right, for a lot of people. Not all, but yes for many.

I am unable to work due to disability and live off £520 ESA a month (which I'm grateful to receive). I live alone, skip meals and don't put the heating on. Almost around 40% of my benefits go to council tax and energy bills and that's before the April increases. Living costs are going up but ESA hasn't. Personally, I'm terrified.

The stigma would be much less, with a return to more mixed communities in social housing.

Also, the messaging to sell the idea doesn't have to appeal to people's altruism. It can centre on their wallets.

The public health housing and homelessness crisis costs the taxpayers billions and billions every year.

Social housing would mean no more billions spent on expensive (but crap) temporary accommodation. Significantly lower housing benefit bill.

Small businesses won't have to struggle to pay increased wages to their employees - because, with affordable stable housing, there will be no need.

And there will be billions saved from spending on the consequences of housing insecurity and homelessness - the NHS (including mental health care), social services, criminal justice system, etc.

Mass social housing would be the cheaper and moral thing to do.

I'm sorry @OldTinHat

Disabled people (including the newly disabled Long COVID) sufferers, deserve a proper standard of living.

If there's billions of furlough fraud that can be casually written off, there should be enough money for disabled people.

Sadly Tony's Blair's war on the disabled has made them an easy target, but we can only hope for a fairer more compassionate civilised future.

Thank you @Tealightsandd

It seems much of the world is in a mess at present. Much of what I am reading on this thread mirrors the way things are in NZ - not enough affordable housing, the price of buying property too expensive, and of course the ever widening gap between rich and poor.

@SquirrelG thank you

@onlychildhamster I'd be happy to live in social housing, my dream of a House and garden for me and my daughter is just that 'a dream' but waiting lists where I am are years and years so I don't stand a chance. Every time a shop closes down it's converted into either luxury flats or 'affordable' housing which is a load of crap because they aren't affordable for the majority. I can't get a mortgage even though it would be a lot cheaper than my monthly rent. It's shit.

@Fordian

Well.

So much written is very true; but, if we take pause, it's - if not 'comforting' but certainly 'consoling' to know that where we are now is actually what we, asa nation, want.

We voted forBrexit, despite the many voices telling us of the economic and environmental hit that would entail- hell, even arch-tiff-Brexiteer Rich-Smugg told us it'd take 50 years to reap the benefits; but, we're okay with that.

Then we re-voted in the sleaziest, most corrupt, self-serving 'elite' party of modern times. Who continue to 'do what they do', as before.

We need to own this shit. This is what we voted for.

Obvs I didn't. But, my care for my fellow man aside, we actually, as a country need the self-reckoning, the slapping that is coming our way. We need, collectively to become rather humbled by what's heading our way.

Only in this way, given that 'education' and 'simple intelligence', let alone 'critical thinking skills' haven't yet triumphed in our general populace; maybe want and misery will deliver the changes we need.

I mean, FPTP v. PR? So simple, so obvious, but- nah.

Many of us have the ability to weather this oncoming shit show. The have/have not gulf will yawn, as in the USA. It may well get ugly.

I care for the losers in this divide, but far less than I did 6 years ago. Beds made, duly laid upon.

Absolutely this.

At what point will anyone who voted conservative and for Brexit take any responsibility? Those who don't vote because "they are as bad as each other" have played a part too. My lifelong sympathies for and support for those less well off than me faded to almost nothing when the north of England voted Tory. If the North is now suffering more - as it will, being less affluent generally than the South of England - then they are getting what they asked for. Vote in haste repent at leisure.

I'm sad this has turned into an anti immigration, kill useless old people type argument. I'm just really concerned about anyone in crisis because of the cost of living, energy hikes, lack of support...we all know there is money available - the Government just don't choose to give a toss about 'not them'

erm those suggestions were not meant to be taken seriously! It was sarcastic.

it was obvious to me!

Immigration has ruined the UK
Personally I think racists have ruined the UK.
And as for the adult conversion about immigration, yes please. Can we have one without the racist lies so much of the population are keen to lap up though.

kill useless old people type argument.

literally no one has said that!

I will be old soon, I don't want to kill my self or move abroad for care. I want good NHS & social care provision here!

Mass social housing would be the cheaper and moral thing to do.

I agree, however housing is the only thing driving our economy so I'm not sure people will vote for it.

It's my theory why people don't care for the poor- it's because they fear poverty. Hence they want nothing to do with it or to understand it. Far from sight, far from mind. Seeing poverty reminds us of our own vulnerability.

I agree, it's why people blame to reassure themselves it won't happen to them.

Mass social housing would be the cheaper and moral thing to do

Completely agree.
It would be the biggest thing the government could to to reduce poverty and would actually make money for the treasury long/medium term. Goes against Tory culture though.