Just so concerned about this country

[ninnynonny]

To be honest, we, as a family are 'ok'. We're by no means well off but have a reasonable income and not huge outgoings (at the moment); but I am so worried about the state of the country economically. Just watching the national and local news today - the cost of living is insane; the Government is a huge mess - with no sign of any of them giving a monkeys about the populus, and so many thousands of people are struggling and will be in a terrible position over the next few months.
How on earth is this sustainable? What is going to happen when people simply cannot afford to, well, live, basically.
I work in the homelessness sector and can only see more families and individuals coming through the doors - and with massive funding cuts, honestly, what will happen?
I'm feeling a little hysterical over it all, for want of a better word!!
Will things improve - what has to happen?

Back to the adult conversation re immigration.

We need young immigrants because of the ageing population & falling birth rate. We are already lacking lorry drivers, doctors, nurses, construction workers, warehouse personnel and farmers.

Good grief the xenophobic are out in force tonight.

*We need young immigrants because of the ageing population & falling birth rate. We are already lacking lorry drivers, doctors, nurses, construction workers, warehouse personnel and farmers.
*
And where will they all live ??

@obusrath

And as for the person criticising the young woman with the false eyelashes etc - may I also say fuck you. You have absolutely bloody No Idea.

Angela Rayner here?

@Gilead

Good grief the xenophobic are out in force tonight.

Bingo.

Gosh youyon form tonight @Lolamento, unable to answer questions posited but feeling smug by having digs at people for swearing! Mumsnet has always been sweary and always will be.
[

@canbage you keep on about the aging population, what do you suggest we do with them ??

@Gilead

Gosh youyon form tonight *@Lolamento*, unable to answer questions posited but feeling smug by having digs at people for swearing! Mumsnet has always been sweary and always will be. [

Consider that I was swearing too and I did replied to your questions.

@lollipoprainbow

*We need young immigrants because of the ageing population & falling birth rate. We are already lacking lorry drivers, doctors, nurses, construction workers, warehouse personnel and farmers. * And where will they all live ??

There are 268000 empty properties in the UK and these are just the ones that are known about. Others, like my neighbour's house, are empty but not counted in these stats (he pretends its not uninhabited, presumably to avoid the council tax surcharge).

@lollipoprainbow do you not think it's an issue? I will be part of that demographic sooner rather than later & I want the economy to be functioning.

@lollipoprainbow

And where will they all live ??

What do you suggest we do about the ageing population?

"The older population in the UK is projected to grow, with people aged 65 and over making up 24% of the population by 2043 (17.4 million people)"

Consider that I was swearing too and I did replied to your questions.
I didn’t claim that you hadn’t replied…

@Fordian

Well.

So much written is very true; but, if we take pause, it's - if not 'comforting' but certainly 'consoling' to know that where we are now is actually what we, asa nation, want.

We voted forBrexit, despite the many voices telling us of the economic and environmental hit that would entail- hell, even arch-tiff-Brexiteer Rich-Smugg told us it'd take 50 years to reap the benefits; but, we're okay with that.

Then we re-voted in the sleaziest, most corrupt, self-serving 'elite' party of modern times. Who continue to 'do what they do', as before.

We need to own this shit. This is what we voted for.

Obvs I didn't. But, my care for my fellow man aside, we actually, as a country need the self-reckoning, the slapping that is coming our way. We need, collectively to become rather humbled by what's heading our way.

Only in this way, given that 'education' and 'simple intelligence', let alone 'critical thinking skills' haven't yet triumphed in our general populace; maybe want and misery will deliver the changes we need.

I mean, FPTP v. PR? So simple, so obvious, but- nah.

Many of us have the ability to weather this oncoming shit show. The have/have not gulf will yawn, as in the USA. It may well get ugly.

I care for the losers in this divide, but far less than I did 6 years ago. Beds made, duly laid upon.

I couldn’t agree more.

I work with extremely intelligent Eastern European’s ….every single one is amazing,hard working and a joy to work with…the residents would agree.X

There are 66,000 extra rooms in London than what is required by the population. I own a small 2 bed flat in London and I have a spare room (I use it as a home office but tbh my office has always been open during the pandemic)..my MIL has 2 spare rooms..I know people with 4 spare rooms. My DH knew a lady who owned half the terraced houses on 1 street, each house worth £750k.. my SIL's landlord owned over 100 properties.

yet there is a housing crisis in London where there aren't enough homes for people to live in. The reality is that property transactions are so difficult and expensive that there is a tendency for us to buy more than we need because we fear not being able to upgrade easily and it's harder for old people to downsize (also due to transaction costs). Property is also treated as a piggy bank; I am guilty of it too; cos I lack the knowledge to invest in stocks properly other than buying DH company stock, I treat mortgage overpayments as a form of saving. There are people who aspire to be BTL landlords, I really want a bigger flat but an estate agent told me that the 3 bed flat I like is also targeted by investors who live in the area as an investment cos it's easier to manage. And of course as owners of £2.5 million houses, they have far more money than me...

Outside of London, it's an earnings problem. A house that is worth 100k is objectively cheap when a couple on national minimum wage can buy it. The problem is that there are hardly any jobs in the area.

@canbage

About time we had an adult convervation, about how many people can stand on this rock.

We need to have an adult conversation about the ageing population & the impacts of that.

It’s not just the ageing population (which is a problem), but a significant proportion of people of all ages who are incapable of working due to mental health issues, poor health, addiction, obesity and numerous other reasons.

Increased care needs and people who require massive amounts of support, ongoing mental health issues but nonexistent treatment available. To be honest many are on a conveyor belt of treatment and it doesn’t seem to help them much.

Shipping in more able people from overseas may help in the short term but isn’t a viable long term solution in my opinion, because eventually you will come to a point when you need more and more as those others age or need care.

@Whatisthepointinthis
(A) robot carers like in Japan
(b) ship the old people with dementia to Poland/Thailand/Bulgaria/cheaper jurisdiction, they don't know their relatives and it would be cheaper
(c) euthanasia for some of the 'lost causes'
(D) short term visas for carers from Africa, build dorms for them, pay below minimum wgae- all against employment legislation but hey ho we left the EU so we can rip that all up. Deport them back to where they come from once the 3 years are up.

There are lots of solutions,. People just don't like them. Plus a lot of the solution sound pretty reprehensible. But objectively sending the pensioners to be cared for in Bulgaria is a lot cheaper than paying minimum wage in England...

Solution for foreigners looking after the elderly without importing those pesky foreigners eh...
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/12/families-sending-relatives-with-dementia-to-thailand-for-care

It’s not just the ageing population (which is a problem), but a significant proportion of people of all ages who are incapable of working due to mental health issues, poor health, addiction, obesity and numerous other reasons.

No, it's deluded to compare people of all ages who can't work for health reasons with the impact of an ageing population.

Shipping in more able people from overseas may help in the short term but isn’t a viable long term solution in my opinion, because eventually you will come to a point when you need more and more as those others age or need care.

So what do you propose?

@lollipoprainbow

*We need young immigrants because of the ageing population & falling birth rate. We are already lacking lorry drivers, doctors, nurses, construction workers, warehouse personnel and farmers. * And where will they all live ??

Well not where the Lib Dem NIMBYS live, that's for certain. They fall all over themselves to support unlimited freedom of movement...but then campaign against new housing developments in their leafy shires.

@TerraNovaTwo

The poor and downtrodden are invisible in this country. It's an absolute fucking disgrace.

This

@onlychildhamster I think people would vote for d which says it all.

We need to invest in our unemployed. Undo the damage of Tony Blair's push for an economy based on the exploitation of cheap labour (British or migrant).

We need to provide good vocational training and apprenticeship opportunities. We need to stop devaluing essential jobs - and ensure decent pay and working conditions.

We also need a mass social housing build. People can't afford to do many jobs or need top up benefits if they do take on the roles when housing is so expensive. We also have a growing homelessness crisis.

The public health housing and homelessness emergency is not just a moral issue. It costs the taxpayer billions and billions.

Billions on housing homeless families and vulnerable individuals in temporary accommodation. Billions on housing benefits to pay high private rents. Billions on top up welfare benefits. And billions on the knock on consequences of widespread housing insecurity and homelessness - NHS including mental health care, social services, criminal justice system.

People on here (and politicians) expressed huge concern about the effect of lockdown on children's education. That was nothing, compared to the impact of the public health housing emergenc - which has major effect on children's life chances and education.

Undo the damage of Tony Blair's push for an economy based on the exploitation of cheap labour (British or migrant).

I don't disagree but how do you wean companies & the public off cheap labour?

Shipping in more able people from overseas may help in the short term but isn’t a viable long term solution in my opinion, because eventually you will come to a point when you need more and more as those others age or need care.

Yes. It's a ponzi scheme. And relies on the exploitation of cheap labour (both British and migrant).

So what do you propose?

See my above post re investing in our unemployed - both young and old. There's high youth unemployment, but also growing over 50s unemployment (which is due to employer age discrimination).

But longer term, robots will doing a lot of the jobs. We'll definitely need to introduce Universal Basic Income in the future (and hope we can tax the robots/their employers).