Just so concerned about this country

[ninnynonny]

To be honest, we, as a family are 'ok'. We're by no means well off but have a reasonable income and not huge outgoings (at the moment); but I am so worried about the state of the country economically. Just watching the national and local news today - the cost of living is insane; the Government is a huge mess - with no sign of any of them giving a monkeys about the populus, and so many thousands of people are struggling and will be in a terrible position over the next few months.
How on earth is this sustainable? What is going to happen when people simply cannot afford to, well, live, basically.
I work in the homelessness sector and can only see more families and individuals coming through the doors - and with massive funding cuts, honestly, what will happen?
I'm feeling a little hysterical over it all, for want of a better word!!
Will things improve - what has to happen?

I can't see how you can have millions of older retired people & shrinking numbers of tax payers. It's not sustainable.

I don't disagree that we need more investment in the job market, training etc.

But longer term, robots will doing a lot of the jobs. We'll definitely need to introduce Universal Basic Income in the future (and hope we can tax the robots/their employers).

But who funds the UBI? I doubt we can tax robots.

[quote onlychildhamster]@Whatisthepointinthis
(A) robot carers like in Japan
(b) ship the old people with dementia to Poland/Thailand/Bulgaria/cheaper jurisdiction, they don't know their relatives and it would be cheaper
(c) euthanasia for some of the 'lost causes'
(D) short term visas for carers from Africa, build dorms for them, pay below minimum wgae- all against employment legislation but hey ho we left the EU so we can rip that all up. Deport them back to where they come from once the 3 years are up.

There are lots of solutions,. People just don't like them. Plus a lot of the solution sound pretty reprehensible. But objectively sending the pensioners to be cared for in Bulgaria is a lot cheaper than paying minimum wage in England...[/quote]
You forgot:

(E) Stop anti smoking crusades. Smoking is a huge source of tax income. And it's not as if living longer is prized... I mean, why give up smoking to then get discussed as if you're a burden (despite all the income tax paid in since leaving school at 15/16, as was the norm for today's generation of older people).

And

(F) Life expectancy is falling. It had already stagnated before the pandemic, due to growing poverty.

Tony Blair's fetishisation of young and healthy has a lot to answer for. It's put us on a slippery slope. Viewing human beings only through the lens of economic worth.

A civilised society respects and values equally all it's members. Young, old, healthy, sick, rich, poor.

There's more to value than how much money can be made out of somebody (incidentally, everybody, including the retired and those too ill to work, pays tax. Eg. VAT).

@AuntyBumBum

The brexit dividend will start to kick in this year, that's what I'm hoping. Bit more money all round.

Priceless.

@Tealightsandd I have a SIL in the UK who is writing at home and wholly dependent on UC for her needs. She hasn't ever looked for a job or want one. She once looked after an old lady and didn't really enjoy it after a while, to be fair the old lady did not pay her well. But she is born and bred here, she doesn't need to work. Even if they cut off her UC, it's fine her mum will support her and she would always have a free place to live.. these are the options you have as a local. Migrants come to the UK to earn money, their attitude to work is just going to be different. O have another SIL who was on UC too, she told my DH, she doesn't want to do an admin role, she wants to do a creative role. She is now overseas doing an unpaid internship. Local born and bred Brits have better options. That's why companies have problems recruiting for less attractive jobs...btw my SILs were on free school meals as kids so hardly privileged. Yet they don't need jobs to survive. Of course they don't have kids so it's a lot easier...

It's fair enough though, I am not saying my SILs are wrong. They don't need to work so why should they? They are happy enough as they are.

@canbage

I can't see how you can have millions of older retired people & shrinking numbers of tax payers. It's not sustainable.

I don't disagree that we need more investment in the job market, training etc.

But longer term, robots will doing a lot of the jobs. We'll definitely need to introduce Universal Basic Income in the future (and hope we can tax the robots/their employers).

But who funds the UBI? I doubt we can tax robots.

Who funds UBI. Perhaps the billionaires?

But anyway like I said, life expectancy is falling.

Also, everybody pays tax. Older people will have paid income tax for 50 years, since leaving school at 15/16. They continue to pay other tax post retirement, i.e. VAT.

Want to reduce the number of older people even further (and at the same time get lots more tax revenue)? Here's the answer.... Smoking 🚬

A civilised society respects and values equally all it's members. Young, old, healthy, sick, rich, poor.

Who has said otherwise?

Viewing human beings only through the lens of economic worth.

Nope it's just factual that we will need doctors's, nurses, carers, drivers, factory workers etc.

There's more to value than how much money can be made out of somebody (incidentally, everybody, including the retired and those too ill to work, pays tax. Eg. VAT).

It's not about making money out of people more just understanding the issues that an ageing population is going to bring, it's going to be a huge change.

The vast majority of revenue comes from income tax & NI though approx 47%

Also, rather than pick on older people who've paid their share, if you want more tax income we could reduce the number of students. Return to training on the job, office junior, apprenticeships, and work your way up culture. Then young healthy people can start paying income tax at 16 or 18, instead of 21 or older.

It would also save the taxpayer billions, because a large percentage of student loans are never going to be repaid... because the majority of graduates are going on to do the same sort of jobs that they would have left school at 16/18 to go into 30 years ago.

Who funds UBI. Perhaps the billionaires?

Unlikely

But anyway like I said, life expectancy is falling.

By about a yr or two

Also, everybody pays tax. Older people will have paid income tax for 50 years, since leaving school at 15/16. They continue to pay other tax post retirement, i.e. VAT.

I never said older people haven't paid tax but you must know how it works. I have paid my NI since 17, that stash is saved in a pot waiting to fund me. Income tax & NI are the biggest source of revenue.

Want to reduce the number of older people even further (and at the same time get lots more tax revenue)? Here's the answer.... Smoking

You are going to force people to smoke so they die younger? good plan!

that stash isn't

Nope it's just factual that we will need doctors's, nurses, carers, drivers, factory workers etc.

Then we invest in our vast pool of un or underemployed. The young and older career changers both.

Training opportunities, apprenticeships, decent pay and working conditions. And of course, affordable secure housing.

And again. Life expectancy has fallen. BT also again. Smoking.

Also, rather than pick on older people who've paid their share,

So we can't have an adult conversation. Saying we have an ageing population which is going to cause challenges is factual, it's not about picking on older people. It's not anything to do with a fair share 🤦🏻‍♀️

But yes let's just encourage every to smoke 🤔

You are going to force people to smoke so they die younger? good plan!

No. End the hypocrital anti smoking crusade, yes.

I've got no idea what your smoking!

@canbage

But yes let's just encourage every to smoke 🤔

No, but stop castigating them for doing so. Which would be a problem for you, why? Lots of tax, and living longer has (as you say) it's downsides.

Then we invest in our vast pool of un or underemployed. The young and older career changers both.

That alone won't be enough

"By mid-2045, the number of working age people and children is projected to remain around the mid-2030 levels. During the same period, the number of people of pensionable age will grow to 15.2 million, an increase of 28% on the level in 2020."

No, but stop castigating them for doing so.

I've not criticised anyone for smoking

@canbage

I've got no idea what your smoking!

A pipe!

Not really. I'm curious what one would be like though.

Anyway I must get to bed.
Goodnight

@lollipoprainbow - just wanted to send you and wish you luck.

I'm not in the UK, but I also have to get out of my flat and find somewhere else. Rental prices here are ridiculous (rural NZ) and there isn't that much available. I'm unemployed, and have little chance of being employed at 62. I have some money in the bank, but that will all be eaten up by the increase in rent as well as the cost of everything else going up. I can't sleep at night for worrying about my future, so I know how you feel.

Local born and bred Brits have better options.

Just about to go to bed but saw this.

What rubbish. You cannot generalise. It is complete ignorance to do so. There are huge numbers of 'local' born and bred British people who are homeless. Nowhere more so than in the UK's capital of homelessness - London.

Your SIL is not representative of the majority. Many people don't have family they can live with. Bereavement, abuse, poverty and lack of space, and all number of other reasons.

Increasingly private landlords will not let to recipients of UC. Perhaps because it doesn't meet the high rents. And social housing is, in many parts of the country particularly London, scarce. London born (and migrant) Londoners face 10-15 year waits.

Many many homeless 'born and bred' Londoners are on the streets or in homeless hostels, or they are socially cleansed out to other parts of the country.

The problem is most acute in London but it is a growing issue elsewhere too.

Of course they don't have kids so it's a lot easier...

A recent report on poverty noted that the worst off were single adult households. This will include people too disabled or ill to work.

Your anecdotal SILs have given you a distorted impression of the often dismal lot of a low income, particularly unwaged, person in the UK (British born or not), and separately of those without children (who, if on low incomes, can end up street homeless).

www.lbc.co.uk/news/rising-bills-devastate-families/

Your SIL has a mum who is willing and able to support her. Which is great for her. But not at all representative of the situation for the majority of low income families and individuals. Whether local born and bred or migrant.

And,

The report found single-person households would be the hardest hit.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/rising-bills-devastate-families/

I'm really sorry for your situation @SquirrelG

Employer age discrimination is a huge problem that needs to be tackled. Likewise the (global) decrease in decent affordable stable housing.

“Really stupid comments on this thread!
Exactly all this. I try really hard to be positive and know there are very good people in the country, but how can we make those who really don't care (and assume owning a hairdryer means single mothers are faking poverty) actually understand?”

Well what’s the answer? Increase benefits? Will that help, how much is enough do you think? But you can’t make the figure too high or it’ll be pointless for many people to work won’t it…? and clearly we need to kill people off - those bloody old people, living longer and stuff how dare they eh!

“* Looking on the bright side , life expectancy has gone backwards a tiny bit” - Christ, if that’s the bright side!

“I keep hearing this but I don't see it...I'm not denying it's happening but everywhere I look there are brand new cars and houses with loads of building work going on. Are the poor hidden away? Genuine question.” I do work in that sector, it’s a nightmare at the moment. DV, substance misuse etc. Extortionate rents driven by the benefits system (but the problem being is not everyone claims benefits - meaning those that can’t claim, can’t afford the rents). That’s if you can find anywhere to rent!
There’s also spiralling debt and Instagram to blame.
Mobile phones, sky packages, clothing and furniture catalogues, fillers/Botox ARE essential to a growing number of people. They NEED those things, they prioritise them over things like rent, food and utilities.
There’s also a growing number of lone men, working full time entering B&B’s and hotels with extortionate daily fees that they’ll never be able to pay, racking up even more debt, but benefit won’t cover the rents because they work. We won’t house anyone if they owe rent or can’t afford the rent or if the property has more bedrooms than they need. If benefits are claimed the arrears can be cleared, the rent is met and so the cycle continues. So what’s the obvious path to take in order to survive.

Dentists, doctors, (even vets) aren’t taking on patients in this authority or those around it and schools are over subscribed. The town is half empty, no shops, just coffee houses and restaurants. Doorways now makeshift areas for homeless people, littered with needles, tents, human shit. There’s talk of building more flats/housing for the homeless, security costs are £600 A DAY (that’s the daily charge for ONE member of security staff, who will deal with pimps and other similar delights).

New housing developments pop up all the time though, demand outstrips supply. Very little social housing, developers don’t want it (they have to have some, but it’s not enough).

So yeah, in short the entire system is fucked! It’s broken. I sure as hell don’t want to deal with it anymore, it’s impossible to help people - for one reason or another.