Urgent advice wanted - dd at uni about to hand in essays late and lose 5 marks for each - should she speak to tutor?

[Mumofunibaby]

Just that. My dd is in her 2nd year at uni and had 3 essays due together (2 yesterday, one today). She got in a right state and handed in 1 essay a few hours late yesterday, the second she is just finishing now (was also due by 2pm yesterday) and as a result, the third essay due today will also now be a few hours late.

The problem is that her uni deducts 5 marks per 24 hours an essay is late. So she is likely to lose 3 x 5 marks in total. Which is a lot. And a real shame as she just scraped a first in her first year grades, but could end up with a 2.2 in her final degree now.

She is dyslexic but hasn't registered as such at uni, partly because she struggled to organise a dyslexia assessment during lockdown.

Could anyone with recent uni experience or who is a tutor please advise - is it worth her contacting her personal or subject tutors to ask for some leniency? She says there is no point as they won't give any and stress you lose 5 marks if your essay is 1 minute late, let alone a few hours. But that does seem really harsh, as it's basically because they've all come at once so being late with the first one has had a domino effect on all the others.

She is very stressed and has been in floods of tears about this.

All suggestions appreciated. Thank you!

@TheMarzipanDildo

I did this recently. No advice sorry, but it was utterly heartbreaking so have great sympathy for your daughter!

Sympathies! And thanks

@Chemenger

The best thing to do is to get in touch with her university disability service and discuss progress in getting adjustments for her dyslexia. Then it might be worth submitting a special circumstances case for these assessments (or what ever they are called there). We might consider waiving late penalties if the student was later given extra time in assessments by the disability service. Generally we would not waive penalties without a special circs submission. The question she must answer is why she was unable to submit this work on time. Lecturers at my university cannot remove late penalties. This is done formally by the exam board. In future she should try asking for extensions if she has a good reason for late submission.

This is also the situation at my institution. And yes, absolutely she should pursue her university’s disability services/ student support to assess her needs and communicate them.

We’re sympathetic as academics and markers to additional needs, but can’t mitigate for them unless we’re made aware of them via the appropriate channels, which the student needs to initiate.

Many thanks for all the helpful comments.

Just to add that I do think there are (or can be) links between dyslexia and organisational skills. I think the assumptions that because she's dyslexic there is no connection to her time management skills is not necessarily correct. Obviously, not everyone who is dyslexic automatically struggles with time management. But I think there can be a connection?

But yes, this is something she'll need to follow up with student support etc going forwards.

This really is describing me exactly. I think it’s anxiety-driven perfectionism. It’s impacted me my whole life. People can reduce it to ‘poor time management’ if they want, but its a real problem that can’t just be quickly overcome in a semester.

@TheMarzipanDildo

This really is describing me exactly. I think it’s anxiety-driven perfectionism. It’s impacted me my whole life. People can reduce it to ‘poor time management’ if they want, but its a real problem that can’t just be quickly overcome in a semester.

Sympathies - agree absolutely. I don't know why students dealing with anxiety is equated with laziness.

I'd suggest she talks to her personal tutor and to the module tutors, but also she really should go and seek help from student support.

There may well be more than dyslexia and perfectionism at play here. I really struggled with deadlines at uni. I'm pretty sure I have ADHD and wish I'd sought support while I was still in education.

I think people here are being way too harsh

OP the problem is that every university is different, and tutors vary hugely in how sympathetic they are, so it's hard to advise what might be the case for your DD

I am very sympathetic in these cases and I'm lucky that my department/university tries to be very inclusive. So if your DD were my student, I would be encouraging her to file a retroactive extension request (at my uni you have 7 days after the deadline to do this). It would probably be granted with the proviso that your DD engage with student services and start getting the help she needs.

Within academia a lot of people are increasingly against the whole system of inflexible essay deadlines, and having assessment based purely on a couple essays. It just doesn't work for all students.

Uni lecturer here.
As others have said the most sensible way forward is for her to register her dyslexia. It's just possible [I don't want to get your hopes up though] that a newly registered condition might be grounds for retrospective mitigation, though in my institution it's very unusual for circumstances to be considered after the deadline.
But try not to worry too much. I've seen students stress enormously about losing 5% etc in a module, but when it all comes out in the wash of determining a degree classification, the difference it makes is tiny. Obviously it's a bit more than tiny if it's three essays, but still not dramatic, probably. But she needs to develop coping strategies sooner rather than later and hopefully she can access some support to help with that.

I am currently studying p/t for a degree - we get marks deducted for late submission unless an extension has been agreed with the tutor in advance. Your dd should have a chat with the relevant tutors and agree a plan going forward.

@TheMarzipanDildo

This really is describing me exactly. I think it’s anxiety-driven perfectionism. It’s impacted me my whole life. People can reduce it to ‘poor time management’ if they want, but its a real problem that can’t just be quickly overcome in a semester.

But it is poor time management — the effect (missed deadlines leading to marks being docked) is the same whether the person didn’t start the essay till too late out of laziness or because their perfectionism meant they kept revising it multiple times and missed the deadline. It’s still late.

And learning to manage your own time to get something as good as you can make it within the time constraints is an important life skill.

Hi Op,

Sorry to hear your daughter is having such a tough time.

Firstly, it would be good to make either her personal tutor or the module leader(s) aware of the state she’s in, as there may be support systems in place that they can direct her to, and it sounds like she’s also going to need a chat with them about things going forward after these essays are handed in.

Does the University have any ‘self-certification’ policy in place? Some will have a policy where you can request a few extra days if needed, without having to request a formalised extension with evidence.

Secondly, please don’t let your daughter blow this out of proportion. What percentage of the module/year do these essays count for? Depending on the weighting, losing 5 marks on each may not count for much overall. She definitely needs to speak to her tutors asap to have a conversation about this and make them aware that she is struggling and worried, as they will be able to discuss the impact of the late penalty on her overall marks for this year, and should also be able to signpost to sources of support.

If she hasn’t already had one, definitely get an assessment with the University disability/learning support services asap. Some Universities have systems in place where students with e.g. a dyslexia diagnosis might also have provision in place for extra time around assessments, or to have staggered deadlines and/or allowance for an extra week’s extension if needed if they have trouble with organisation as part of their learning needs. She should definitely point to the current situation as evidence of this. I’m not in any way qualified in terms of disability and learning support, but having dealt with a few students in this position, it’s definitely worth getting an assessment done so that some support is in place for her.

Hope that helps a bit! Feel free to PM me if that's helpful.

Your DD needs to apply for DSA to get support with regard to her dyslexia but this will not include her being given extensions. Not being able to apply because she cannot complete the forms is a bit of a weak excuse for not having done this in the first year. She can get help from the student services team. With regard to the hand-ins she will need to take a hit on the mark reduction. My university would cap her mark at 40% (for up to 24 hours late) and would not accept the work after 24hrs. This seems not as harsh.

Hopefully your Daughter is mature enough to speak to her Tutors and request extensions as she has problems with time management.

She is an adult and hopefully can sort out her own problems without Mummy’s help?

I really don't want to be unhelpful, but honestly, your DD needs to deal with this herself. She is an adult, she should be independent. If this was a job, and she was going to miss deadlines, would you be this involved?

She should have registered her dyslexia with the uni - it would still be worth her doing this for the rest of her time there.

She needs to learn how to manage her time and her anxiety. If taking a hit on these essay marks is part of that learning, it is a valuable experience.

Is she living at home? I can't really fathom my parents having this level of knowledge of what went on in my uni studies. I lived four hours away, I was in my twenties - it was my life! Surely part of the university experience is having that independence? Not your parents looking over your shoulder to see if you're going to hand your homework in on time?

@BHX3000

At my uni - only a couple of years ago - you were encouraged to speak to the tutor if you were struggling, absolutely. Before the essays were due in. Not after. We were deducted 10% if up to 24 hours late, there was no leniency unless mitigating circumstances were applied.

When were these essays set? When did she start working on them? Did she already warn the tutor she was struggling?

Unless there’s a massive backstory not mentioned in your post, I’m sorry but this sounds like she simply didn’t get organised properly.

I agree with this. I'm currently a student on a postgrad course which is assessed on essays/assignments/projects and not exams.

In my experience the University and tutors are very lenient and will be happy to offer extensions of up to a week. They understand that everyone has a lot going on. But you have to ask BEFORE you are running into trouble, and at least a few days before your deadline. Not after you should have submitted.

I would say it's worth asking. My DD says at her uni virtually everyone who asks seems to get an extension even right at the last minute. It's possibly because they are being more lenient right now because of covid.

@dreamingbohemian

I think people here are being way too harsh

OP the problem is that every university is different, and tutors vary hugely in how sympathetic they are, so it's hard to advise what might be the case for your DD

I am very sympathetic in these cases and I'm lucky that my department/university tries to be very inclusive. So if your DD were my student, I would be encouraging her to file a retroactive extension request (at my uni you have 7 days after the deadline to do this). It would probably be granted with the proviso that your DD engage with student services and start getting the help she needs.

Within academia a lot of people are increasingly against the whole system of inflexible essay deadlines, and having assessment based purely on a couple essays. It just doesn't work for all students.

There’s no such thing as inflexible deadlines - students are allowed to be late, without penalties IF they have a valid reason. There’s no university without an appeals process. Just like in the real world.

OP I don’t understand why your daughter needs an additional assessment when she already received help at school. Has she actually got a valid diagnosis that for example allows her to claim disabled students’ allowance?

If not then you should get a proper diagnosis that will be accepted everywhere and qualify her as disabled.

Meant to add - our Uni has been very clear that extensions will not be granted because of reasons such as "I couldn't get myself organised" or "workload was too much". That is not a reason for extension.

It would be something like a bereavement, or Covid infection, or other upredictable, emergency situation.

I don't think the OP's daughter has a leg to stand on in terms of getting her marks reinstated.

@Gilly12345

Hopefully your Daughter is mature enough to speak to her Tutors and request extensions as she has problems with time management.

She is an adult and hopefully can sort out her own problems without Mummy’s help?

This kind of sneering is so fucking rude and actually I think quite ableist

People with disabilities sometimes need help to do things that other people can do on their own. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Especially right now when our young people have been affected so badly by two years of Covid.

I would rather my students had family support in these stressful situations than be expected to just deal on their own, especially if their disability makes it difficult to access support.

Getting a degree isn't just about being clever. She has to demonstrate that she can manage her workload and her word count effectively and within the set deadlines. I really would urge you to step back OP; if she can't do what's required by the time it's asked for then is she really deserving of a degree? She's the one whose name is going to be on the certificate, she needs to take responsibility.

I also agree that CBT for perfectionism would be helpful in addition to accessing disability support at Uni.

She should also check what study skills courses are available to her at Uni - key skills like speed reading, summarising complex information and essay planning can be taught. These may help her with some of her writing problems, if she's creating over-long texts for example.

Having multiple essays due within a short timeframe is stressful. I don’t think other posters are also considering that dependent on the course the modules could also be completely different.

In my final year of uni I had 5 essays due in the first week of January. I had planned and started them as soon as each was issued due to work commitments but unfortunately I have a personal issue happen in that first week that I need some additional time just to do the final tweaks. My department head was abit of nightmare about it all when I applied for special circumstances but my I messaged my lectures explain the situation and they all said I could have some extra time as they need time to mark everyone’s anyways.

I did get special circumstances in the end after going round the houses with meetings and paperwork.

The best bet is for your daughter to explain over email to the lectures and see what they say. Start the application for special circumstances and then after she’s written the essay rectify the alerting the uni to her disability.

She’s also probably be better getting the essay due today in so she doesn’t get late marks now.

The whole system for extensions I find bizarre, I know people that have been accepted due to stress, exhaustion, mental health all of which they never had to prove.

@Mumofunibaby

Just that. My dd is in her 2nd year at uni and had 3 essays due together (2 yesterday, one today). She got in a right state and handed in 1 essay a few hours late yesterday, the second she is just finishing now (was also due by 2pm yesterday) and as a result, the third essay due today will also now be a few hours late.

The problem is that her uni deducts 5 marks per 24 hours an essay is late. So she is likely to lose 3 x 5 marks in total. Which is a lot. And a real shame as she just scraped a first in her first year grades, but could end up with a 2.2 in her final degree now.

She is dyslexic but hasn't registered as such at uni, partly because she struggled to organise a dyslexia assessment during lockdown.

Could anyone with recent uni experience or who is a tutor please advise - is it worth her contacting her personal or subject tutors to ask for some leniency? She says there is no point as they won't give any and stress you lose 5 marks if your essay is 1 minute late, let alone a few hours. But that does seem really harsh, as it's basically because they've all come at once so being late with the first one has had a domino effect on all the others.

She is very stressed and has been in floods of tears about this.

All suggestions appreciated. Thank you!

Honestly, by the second year at university you should not be involved in her academic work at all. If she can't cope mentally or academically, she should not be there. The whole point of university, as well as teaching you to think, is for you to be thrown in at the deep end with a reading list and have the drive and nouse to handle deadlines and do the frigging work!

You should do nothing, Let her deal with it. Universities are used to this as more and more people get there who frankly shouldn't be there. Are you going to jump in every time this happens to her? You have let it play out,

Also check if you are modelling resilience in your interactions with her - there is a difference between providing constructive support that helps her with a disability and helicoptering in to smooth things over in advance.

You’ve already had some great advice, just to add that five marks off for a late assignment is really lenient in comparison to our place where you are capped at a basic pass if you get it in within 24hrs of the submission time and then fail.

She definitely needs to contact student support; they will help get all the right support and processes in place but she needs to initiate and engage with it in order for it to happen.