ANY NURSES PLEASE - QUESTION

[curtainchops]

Hi,
A question to any nurses here please ?

Are you allowed to treat a family member at home ?
ie; they're ill with Covid and you put them on a nebuliser and a Sats reader.

Thanks

ODP equivalent training and A4C banding as RGNs, work in the Hospital Anaesthetic dept.

Oxygen has to be prescribed, it would be highly unlikely that anyone would just have access to a oxygen cylinder. If it was a nebuliser - Would the patient have had a nebuliser at hime for any other reasons?

An ODP assists in theatres or anaesthetists. They are not regustered with the NMC as they are not nurses.

@mightbeyesmightbeno

Oxygen has to be prescribed, it would be highly unlikely that anyone would just have access to a oxygen cylinder. If it was a nebuliser - Would the patient have had a nebuliser at hime for any other reasons?

No it doesn’t, it’s not classified as a medicine. It’s available for first aiders, divers, welders….

No it doesn’t, it’s not classified as a medicine

It absolutely is. There are different types of prescriptions though. You can get sort of carte blanche ones which say 'use in this instance, for this type of person'. Although pretty wide ranging, its a prescription nontheless. You can kill someone or seriously injure them with too much O2.

You can buy an oxygen concentrator on Amazon for a £200.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

No it doesn’t, it’s not classified as a medicine

It absolutely is. There are different types of prescriptions though. You can get sort of carte blanche ones which say 'use in this instance, for this type of person'. Although pretty wide ranging, its a prescription nontheless. You can kill someone or seriously injure them with too much O2.

I’m afraid you are actually incorrect it does not require a prescription. It’s either freely available for non medical purposes or if you obtain the specific ‘medical supplies’, it’s a GSL. Same category as picking paracetamol from a supermarket shelf

Section 11 www.brit-thoracic.org.uk/document-library/guidelines/emergency-oxygen/bts-guideline-for-oxygen-use-in-adults-in-healthcare-and-emergency-settings/

If you have sats probe and nebuliser plus prescription for medication plus medication to administer anyone can do this. I’m a nurse btw.

Plenty of people have nebuliser equipment and live at home. They can self-administer their own nebuliser so long as they’re physically capable. Otherwise a family member or nurse could do so.

It seems you can buy 02 concentrators on ebay as well. I never knew that.

Just read post by BungleandGeorge … there are 3 x different meds for news … saline, salbutamol, ipratropium. They all work differently. The salbutamol and the ipratropium would deffo need prescription. Not sure about saline, but anything administered as a treatment would normally need a prescription.

*nebs

You can buy saline nebs on ebay as well.

@MayThePawsBeWithYou

An ODP assists in theatres or anaesthetists. They are not regustered with the NMC as they are not nurses.

They are equivalent to nurses. They have slightly different skills but they work to the same level as nurses, higher even. They have patient assessment skills and can manage airways and cannulate (among other skills). They are registered with the HCPC, like paramedics. They are registered healthcare professionals.

Thanks, I do know what ODPs do, I just said that as OP has aimed her questions at nurses but the person in question is not a nurse. It has been suggested that OP can contact the NMC which would not be the correct body.

I think it’s an important distinction to make that this person was not treating a patient. They were not at work, they were caring for a loved one in their own home.
If OP feels there are suspicious circumstances I think the police are probably the place to go. Possibly could also contact the coroner if they are involved. If a crime is committed in your personal life of course the professional body would then investigate whether it affected your fitness to practice. Without any clear evidence of wrongdoing or evidence a professional body aren’t going to get involved in how someone cares for their relatives outside of work.

OP I’m not sure what you’re saying here. One minute you’re talking about nebuliser, the next oxygen and you’re seeming to confuse what treatment the patient is getting. SO why are you questioning this at all? Just to be clear, I worked on hot covid ward during pandemic. I watched patients come in to us, step up to ICU and then step down to ward level care again.

Some patients just refused/couldn’t tolerate being intubated and it was their choice. One knew he would die and had capacity to make that decision for himself. He wanted to die on the ward rather than keep being intubated in the hope that he might survive.

Some patients stayed at ward level care, often for in excess of a month. Then they dropped off a cliff suddenly and died.

Some people cope very well on 90% sats. If they’re a copd patient then normal range is 88-92%.

So frankly you don’t really seem to know what you’re talking about, and why are you getting involved?

I think maybe OP is grieving and just wants answers and clearly dislikes the brothers partner but I do agree this doesnt make a lot of sense. Op doesnt know what treatment if any was given, if it was prescribed or not, what job the partner has, how things were at home, a icu matron will not be able to help either but I hope Op finds peace. I am not sure why these questions are aimed at nurses as the partner is not a nurse.

Sorry OP - buried in page 5 of this thread is that this is your brother you’re talking about, that his partner is an ODP and you are asking if she should have arranged a hospital admission earlier for him, i think this is the crux of the matter?
I’m truly so sorry for your loss. It is a hard time for everyone, and especially hard for relatives to not be allowed to be with their family, and cope with the knowledge that their family member died alone.

As your brother appeared to have some sort of heart condition and he was unvaccinated we know that covid kills a higher proportion of unvaccinated patients, especially those with an underlying health condition.

Some questions to ask yourself : Was your brother having active treatment for his heart condition, what was that treatment, was he concordant with his medication, and did he take responsibility for his health? By that I mean, exercise, good diet, low alcohol intake, good weight control and no smoking. Did he seek treatment when he was ill? Did he resist treatment ? So once you have answered these questions to yourself about your brother, you might have some sort of answer going forward. Your brother is responsible for his own health and treatment to a point. His partner would be unable to get treatment for him if he was unwilling - I am assuming he had capacity to make decisions for himself. Nurses won’t administer treatment to anyone if they refuse and they have capacity.
We know that with covid, patients often compensated for a long time, then it became too much and their systems couldn’t cope - like dropping off a cliff I referred to in my post above. So it might seem odd -but in my ward experience as a nurse during the pandemic, it happened often. Often patients would be chatting one day and dead 2 days later. This seemed odd to us, too, at the start, except it happened a lot.
So it could be that your brother coped ok at home, his body compensating, then suddenly his body was struggling and eventually couldn’t cope. Hence the need for ICU treatment.
By all means if you have questions, ask them of the hospital… be clear of your facts about your brother’s health and ensure you get a response that puts your mind at rest. If you still feel uncertain about it, keep asking questions. In our trust we have PALS - a system where patients and families can ask questions they’re not happy about. I’m sure your trust will have something similar if you feel something isn’t right.
Good luck xxxx

The issue is that the questions and concerns are not about his hospital care but what was going on at home before he was admitted, PALS wont be able to help with this.

Yes that’s true re PALS but OP is speaking with the matron so is there a concern with the hospital care or not?

This thread is an absolute clusterfuck. It should go. Potentially defamatory to the professional involved and it just reads like a grieving relative lashing out and looking for someone to blame for a tragic loss.

I’m sorry for the loss of your brother, OP .

Fully Agree with @BalladOfBarryAndFreda

Sorry it’s a complete clusterfuck. Let me know how you deal with losing a sibling at 55 with two boys aged, 14 and 10.

Perhaps you could try and speak to his g.p or perhaps your own g.p and bereavement counselling might help. Everyone deals with loss differently and looking for answers is understandable, how are his children coping.