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Original poster

ANY NURSES PLEASE - QUESTION

176 replies

curtainchops · 13/01/2022 12:09

Hi,
A question to any nurses here please ?

Are you allowed to treat a family member at home ?
ie; they're ill with Covid and you put them on a nebuliser and a Sats reader.

Thanks

OP posts:
Mistysnow · 13/01/2022 14:56

Oxygen is a drug and has to be prescribed. She shouldnt of been self administering oxygen without a medical assessment and prescription so if this is the case this is wrong

KnobJockey · 13/01/2022 14:59

I don't know if it's illegal, but yes I would be reporting this to her employer/ possibly police?

Original poster
curtainchops · 13/01/2022 15:01

@Mistysnow

Sorry my post is wrong to an extent as i thought you implied was in hospital for 7 days. It still depends on so many factors. If this person had capacity they could have said themselves i want or need to go to hospital, we dont know the full context of the conversations they may of had. Also vaccination status. In a home environment it is impossible to see the full clinical picture you cant check blood gases to see oxygen levels, infection markers or monitor other organ functions. Having a sats probe is basic and can be helpful but you need to look at the whole picture including medical history, general condition and health of the person, resp rate etc. In theory there is nothing wrong with as an individual buying a sats probe online and using it as a guide for saturations only whether a nurse or not i know a lot of people who did this. We will never be able to know for sure with just this information as to whether someone acted incorrectly. Could there or also been discussions with 111? The only person who can decide if this person was negligent would be a judge, they may have justifications for believeing this person wasnt as ill as they where.
He was unvaccinated, he had a heart attack 8 months earlier, he had, had pneumonia a few times in past years and also had a blood condition. He didn't want to go to hospital and was against the vaccine.
OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Care homes
whatfreshheck · 13/01/2022 15:03

If he didn't want to go to hospital then his partner couldn't have made him. Sounds like he decided to take the gamble, stay at home and have his partner care for him. Not really her fault.

Original poster
curtainchops · 13/01/2022 15:05

@whatfreshheck

If he didn't want to go to hospital then his partner couldn't have made him. Sounds like he decided to take the gamble, stay at home and have his partner care for him. Not really her fault.
Is there not a duty of care ? I would have taken him to hospital against his wishes and I am related to him.... but I am not a nurse.
OP posts:
Letsallscreamatthesistene · 13/01/2022 15:07

@curtainchops

He got ill a week previously. After about 5 days he phoned her as they don't live together.

She went to get him a day later. She looked after him at her house for 7 days, with sats machine and oxygen (although she said nebuliser).
on the 7th day he was slumped and blueish. She called and ambulance and he went straight into icu.
He was on cpap.
they tried to intubate him 4 nights later and he died 2 hours after that.

You need to know what drugs she administered via the nebuliser and if she had a prescription for this. There are a few that can be given. Worst case is that she bought a nebuliser, stole medication from her work and did it at home. Best case is that it was all under a prescription and fine.

Honestly its diffixult for any of us to know. You can phone the NMC and report your concerns and they will investigate.

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 13/01/2022 15:09

Is there not a duty of care ?
I would have taken him to hospital against his wishes and I am related to him.... but I am not a nurse.

You'd be 100% wrong to have done this. Who are you to deny his autonomy? Everyone is allowed to make unwise decisions, regardless of what other think.

Sounds like he had mental capacity and made his choices. Which is fine.

multiplemum3 · 13/01/2022 15:09

If he didn't want to go to the hospital she couldn't have made him, aside from anything else, forcing people to do something they don't want to is definitely not part of being a nurse.

Reallycantbesarsed · 13/01/2022 15:09

@curtainchops …you cannot force anyone to go to hospital if they have full MC

skellingtonboot · 13/01/2022 15:11

@curtainchops

I never said he was on a ward.
This is a direct copy and paste from your post at 13:27

"Also the fact he was in hospital ward for 7 days before going into itu "

Then at 14:41 you said

"She rang the ambulance on the day and he went straight into ICU"

MayThePawsBeWithYou · 13/01/2022 15:12

You cannot take a person to hospital against their wishes if they have the capacity to make their own decision even when an ambulance turns up. Did anyone else in the family visit him when he was ill at home.

Original poster
curtainchops · 13/01/2022 15:14

quote;
(letsallscream)

Honestly its diffixult for any of us to know. You can phone the NMC and report your concerns and they will investigate.

This ^ is helpful. Thank you.

OP posts:
ineedsun · 13/01/2022 15:16

Trying to work out if he should have gone into hospital sooner, as he was there for 7 days, then went into icu.

This is why people are confused, it sounds like he was in hospital for 7 days and then went to ICU.

I’m sorry for your loss, I hope you’re able to make sense of it all

Original poster
curtainchops · 13/01/2022 15:17

@ skellingtonboot.

I copy and pasted someone else's reply because i didnt know how to use the quote button.

OP posts:
ineedsun · 13/01/2022 15:17

Also the fact he was in hospital ward for 7 days before going into itu
And this

Stompythedinosaur · 13/01/2022 15:18

@curtainchops

He was not on a ward. She looked after him at home for 7 days. She rang the ambulance on the day and he went straight into ICU. She worked at the hospital (apparently) that he went into.

I just wanted to ask if it was ok to do this, or whether it was misconduct.

I don't want to say anymore because someone may know her.

Nothing you have described sounds like misconduct.

I'm sorry for your loss.

I wonder if your understandable grief is being expressed as anger towards his partner who cared for him.

I echo pps who say you cannot generally take people with capacity to hospital against their wishes.

bagofconkers · 13/01/2022 15:20

@skellingtonboot The bit about being on a hospital ward was OP quoting Daisy95's post, and correcting her (next para confirms he was at home, not on ward).

Original poster
curtainchops · 13/01/2022 15:21

STOP having a go at me.

He was never on a ward.
I'm sorry I copied someone else's reply to reply to them. I don't frequent this place.

OP posts:
Atla · 13/01/2022 15:25

If someone has full mental capacity they do have the right to refuse treatment, even if it is against their best interest.
I'm very sorry for the loss of your brother Flowers it sounds like a very difficult situation.

skellingtonboot · 13/01/2022 15:27

Apologies that I didn't spot that you were quoting.

Nevertheless, your posts are quite confusing.

I hope you find some resolution.

RegardingMary · 13/01/2022 15:39

It's difficult to say, tou can buy a sats probe and a nebuliser off amazon, ive seen both in aldi and lidl before. There's no feasible way she's managed to acquire oxygen.

If your brother was refusing to go into hospital, is it that she's tried to care for him at home with what she could then called an ambulance when he was no longer able to protest? If so she hasn't really done anything untoward. Even if she called an ambulance, he could have refused to go and an ambulance wouldn't force him.

ineedsun · 13/01/2022 15:39

@curtainchops

STOP having a go at me.

He was never on a ward.
I'm sorry I copied someone else's reply to reply to them. I don't frequent this place.

No one is having a go at you, they’re confused because of a couple of confusing posts and seeking clarification. You’re getting cross with people because understandably your emotions are running high.

I’m not a nurse but I’m married to one and in a nursing family and am also a HCP, as others have I can’t see that there is anything to be concerned about, no one can force someone to go to hospital if they have mental capacity to make a decision. I’m sorry.

whatfreshheck · 13/01/2022 15:49

"Is there not a duty of care ?
I would have taken him to hospital against his wishes and I am related to him.... but I am not a nurse."

There is a duty of care yes but that doesn't mean you can override the patients wishes. I understand you are upset and I'm sorry for your loss but if he didn't want to go she would not have been able to make him and the paramedics wouldn't have taken him as long as he had capacity.

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 13/01/2022 15:54

He was unvaccinated, had a history of heart disease and was refusing to go to hospital?

I hope you're not considering reporting his partner to the NMC out of revenge because you don't like her. That wouldn't be very nice would it?

She wasn't even at work when these events took place.

whatfreshheck · 13/01/2022 15:57

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

He was unvaccinated, had a history of heart disease and was refusing to go to hospital?

I hope you're not considering reporting his partner to the NMC out of revenge because you don't like her. That wouldn't be very nice would it?

She wasn't even at work when these events took place.

Yep. Agree completely