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Original poster

ANY NURSES PLEASE - QUESTION

176 replies

curtainchops · 13/01/2022 12:09

Hi,
A question to any nurses here please ?

Are you allowed to treat a family member at home ?
ie; they're ill with Covid and you put them on a nebuliser and a Sats reader.

Thanks

OP posts:
Zilla1 · 13/01/2022 17:18

I'm not going to post anymore because even though you may be grieving, I have serious concerns. In terms of your "but who knows what they want when they're already seriously ill ?" yes almost all patients who are seriously ill still know what they want and their wishes must followed provided they still have capacity. HCPs should reconfirm capacity and often the relatives of patients may want treatment to the patient against their wishes. Someone gets to decide their own treatment and that of their children until the children are competent and to some extent that of people who don't have capacity for whom they have a role. I'm trying to help you understand that just because you might have wanted your relative to go to hospital earlier, it doesn't mean they should have or could have been made to go, nor to have had any other treatment they don't want. It might take you being forced to have treatment by a family member against your wishes to understand consent and capacity, It is possible to have capacity and not consent. The fact your relative was unvaccinated against COVID unless this was due to a medical reason might indicate they made decisions that might not have been in their medical interests. In the UK, we don't yet forcibly administer vaccinations to adults with capacity.

CovidCorvid · 13/01/2022 17:19

A friend of mine is prescribed nebulisers and frequently nebulises at home without going to hospital. No nurse looking after them. Think she used to go to a&e if she’d needed a nebuliser but doesnt since covid. She’s scared of getting it so avoids hospital.

Zilla1 · 13/01/2022 17:23

You may not have experienced it but many patients with terminal illness decide to end therapeutic treatment before the options to extend life have ended if the costs to their comfort and well-being outweigh the benefits in terms of absolute duration of life. That is their choice unless they don't have capacity.

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Maelstrom23 · 13/01/2022 17:24

The ICU matron won't be able to answer those questions OP, that's pure speculation; also unless you're NOK, then they won't be able to talk to you about your relative full stop. I've been in the exact same situation with NOK so know both first hand and also from my HCP capacity.
I'm not sure where the nebuliser comes into it , but all the other stuff sounds fine and your relative had capacity regarding his wishes on vaccination/calling for ambulance assistance etc.
Doesn't sound like the actions of someone negligent to me, more a loving partner who respected their other halve's wishes.

titchy · 13/01/2022 17:27

Unless he didn't want to, but who knows what they want when they're already seriously ill ?

The majority of people.

I'm sorry for your loss, but he clearly did not want to go to hospital, and his partner being a nurse knew that was his right and that you can't force people to go to hospital and get treatment if they don't want to.

So it sounds like she did the best she could given his refusal.

MayThePawsBeWithYou · 13/01/2022 17:30

Its not always possible for nok to be given information, its not an automatic right and he may have listed his partner as nok, its usually only the executor or someone with a claim who can access notes when someone has died unless maybe a solicitor and the police if its being investigated as suspicious.

WonderfulYou · 13/01/2022 17:47

You can’t force someone to seek medical attention if they don’t want it.

I would have rang an ambulance but it sounds like she did this so it’s hard to say whether they should have rang it earlier.

You say he was ill for 7 days before going into hospital.
Did you see or speak to him during this time?

I’m sorry for your loss Flowers

Hmum0fthree · 13/01/2022 17:47

@curtainchops the thing is with covid Op is it can go down hill very quickly, and the only person who knows whether that happened or not is her, but if she rang an ambulance I'm guessing it was at the point he needed one. Sorry for your loss

Shouldbedoing · 13/01/2022 17:49

Covid is a strange virus. People can have terribly low sats but feel no sense of danger from it. They were dubbed 'happy hypoxics'. Covid is also known to take a turn for the worse on day 7.
I am really sorry you lost your brother. I can feel your pain and anger in your words.
Covid is a vicious bastard

BungleandGeorge · 13/01/2022 18:11

It doesn’t sound like she was acting in a professional capacity, he was a friend and not a patient?
Unless you’re very mentally unwell and under section nobody can be forced to go to hospital. This includes if someone calls you an ambulance and you say you don’t want to go.
Nebulisers, saline and oxygen are not classified as prescription only, anyone could buy and use them.
I’m so sorry about your brother I think it is a very normal part of grief to question everything and wonder if things could have been different. Are you NOK? If you are, Possibly what you could do is ask for a debrief with the hospital about what happened during his admission. I’m not sure if they’ll have the staff available at the moment though, if not maybe get a copy of the notes and find a private doctor to go through them with you and answer your questions?

BungleandGeorge · 13/01/2022 18:13

Have you heard from the coroner? If it was an unexpected death they may be investigating?

Fluffycloudland77 · 13/01/2022 18:41

My dh has sats of 90-91 routinely and the drs couldn’t be less interested in him. I have been told 88 is the threshold for admission. I’m in healthcare but not a RGN.

He wasn’t the greatest candidate to survive covid though.

If it was me I’d be asking questions too.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 13/01/2022 18:42

I suppose she might have spent more time than you know trying to convince him to get help and only when he was semi-concious was able to go against his wishes and get an ambulance ? It is incredibly difficult to convince someone to get help if they are adamant they don't want or need it.

I hate to ask this but was the partner vaccinated or is she also against the vaccination ?

Musicaltheatremum · 13/01/2022 19:15

Totally inappropriate to manage a relative/partner at home themselves. As a GP I would not treat my own family in these situations as you cannot be objective.

Musicaltheatremum · 13/01/2022 19:19

@Musicaltheatremum

Totally inappropriate to manage a relative/partner at home themselves. As a GP I would not treat my own family in these situations as you cannot be objective.
But reading on this is obviously a complex case. A person has the right to refuse treatment and the matron will not be able to say if his admission was in good time as they don't know what went on beforehand so I would avoid speaking to them.
MayThePawsBeWithYou · 13/01/2022 19:27

Its better to reserve judgement as we don't know the facts. He had a recent heart attack, bouts of pneumonia, a blood disorder which could be anything. It may have already been agreed that he have no more hospital admissions, wanted to stay at home, was already prescribed oxygen and all his partner (like thousands of family members all over the country) did was administer what he was prescribed and monitor his sats at the request of him, his GP or hospital discharge notes.

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 13/01/2022 19:37

@Musicaltheatremum

Totally inappropriate to manage a relative/partner at home themselves. As a GP I would not treat my own family in these situations as you cannot be objective.
I agree
Crispynoodle · 13/01/2022 19:41

So sorry for your loss. It very much sounds like his nurse partner was doing their absolute best. Yes I would have used an oximeter (many of us nurses bought oximeters knowing they would be useful) I also would have been happy administering a nebuliser if it was prescribed for the person. I'm not sure anything would have been different, it could possibly have been worse Thanks

Cuck00soup · 13/01/2022 19:47

It sounds like your brother's girlfriend followed his wishes.

I don't believe she prescribed oxygen or was able to obtain it off prescription.

nadgersbadgers · 13/01/2022 19:48

He's your brother? What did you do OP when he was ill? Did he call you?

Newchallenge · 13/01/2022 19:51

I'm sorry for your loss OP. Flowers

It doesn't sound like your brother was in great shape to survive COVID whatever happened.

Wishing for peace for you and his family.

moanyhole · 13/01/2022 19:51

She could not have gone against his wishes to avoid going to hospital, so she minded him at home, I don't know what else she could have done. She had a duty of care to respect his wishes in this regard, no duty of care to go against them. 90% Sat's when she called the ambulance is reasonable and it sounds like he deteriorated in hospital, which unfortunately is the case with covid.

Sounds like she did her best. We're any of the rest of the family helping, or was it all left to her?

Original poster
curtainchops · 13/01/2022 20:08

She was an OPD
What is that please ??

OP posts:
Cuck00soup · 13/01/2022 20:12

Is it an ODP maybe? Operating Department Practitioner?

thingymaboob · 13/01/2022 20:24

@curtainchops

She was an OPD What is that please ??
ODPs are registered with the HCPC, the same as paramedics.
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