NHS Language Excluding Women

[PurplePansy05]

I am adding this in the Chat section, not a dedicated Feminism/Gender section or AIBU because I would like to have a wider and preferably not heated discussion about this.

I came across this NHS page:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-cancer/causes/

and the language:

Anyone with a cervix can get cervical cancer. This includes trans and non-binary people with a cervix.

has made me feel very uncomfortable. This page was recently reviewed, September 2021. It's the second time I came across this on the NHS website, I can't find the other page now.

Whilst I understand everyone's right to perceive themselves how they wish to, feel how they wish to about anything including their own gender, and that to be respected, I do not understand why this page does not refer to women. Women are by far the main and key group of interest here. I personally do not identify as a person with a cervix. I identify as a woman, always have and always will, and I would like to be referred to as a woman.

I do not understand why this term is being eradicated. It's not an inclusive approach by any measure.

Am I missing something? Is my thinking flawed? Is the same happening with the term "men"?

And it's very obvious to everyone who thinks about it all even for a minute.

That none of this is for anyone except males. Males who get very shouty when the words woman girl mother and sometimes female don't include them. The common use of 'women and cis women' says it all.

I firmly support the campaigns for clear English. Communication, specifically clear communication, is essential in so many spheres including health and medicine. It is also important in law but that is often purposefully obfuscated.

So I believe we need to continue using the words man and woman as they have been used for centuries.

But I also believe that if someone is receiving a medical or surgical transition, they must know whether they need a smear or prostate exam or whatever else as part of providing their informed consent to the procedures.

If they don’t know that they still need a smear, for example, how can they possibly be considered to be understand their treatment and therefore be able to consent to it?

The language towards women has been and continues to be eradicated to be 'inclusive', and male language hasn't been touched. It's the root of the problem. The website doesn't mention women in regards to female related cancers, but male ones- the language is all male. Because it's only women that need to lie down and be quiet.

*Why this dividing us into body parts that focus on our reproductive biology?

Bodies with vaginas
Menstruators
Pregnant people/ gestators
Etc.

It's dehumanising and just grim.*

This. Dehumanising. Exactly how I feel about this. I think this whole trend should be reversed before medical and scientific sources in particular become muddled up beyond return. And frankly, I do not wish to be a person with a vagina/cervix/whatever else in common, everyday language either. There is nothing wrong with being a woman and being called a woman.

And in the same way, all biological mothers should be referred to in literature as mothers. Biologically, we are mothers to our children and we will always be. Certain issues can only affect us by virtue of this. There's no shame or embarrassment in being a mother and no reason to avoid using this term.

I have a friend who transitioned years ago. Female to male. He still has a cervix.

www.nhs.uk/contact-us/give-feedback-or-make-complaint/

You can give feedback about the website here

@Gilead

I have a friend who transitioned years ago. Female to male. He still has a cervix.

And I suspect is perfectly aware of that fact too.

Is there any explanation of what a cervix is? How can you know if you've got one if you don't know what it is?

I have no issue with this at all. I'm a woman. I don't have any interest in arguing with anyone about it - I understand the points made against it, but I disagree.

I just want to add my voice as I don't want it to seem as if MN is a monolothic block of people who think one way.

@changingstages I don't feel like a piece of a monolothic block of people. Is this what you call women who want to be called women?

I left this open to a discussion and I respect the fact you're not concerned about this, that's your view. There's no good reason to use this type of comments about others, however?

When will the men be described as " testicle owners"? They use the term "men" on their page about prostate cancer . Why is inclusion so one sided ?

What's wrong with heated debate?

Thanks for raising this purple and you're right, genuinely inclusive language would have the little word and. This excludes many people whose first language is not English, those with learning difficulties and (as the Labour Party Conference sadly demonstrated) the many who don't know what a cervix is, including Oxford and Harvard educated David Lammy. The NHS spent a long time learning to communicate effectively. It is so sad that this is being abandoned. Of course they should mention trans men and non-binary people, but mention women first.

In Wales, the screening time has just changed from 3 years to 5 years so I have been looking on various websites about this. (Also please sign the petitions to change this back if you can!)

Public Health Wales:
If you are aged 25 to 64 and you have a cervix, you can have cervical screening. We will invite you for cervical screening if you are aged 25-64 and you are registered as female or unspecified with a GP surgery.
If you have a cervix but are registered as male, we will not be able to invite you for screening due to the current limitations of our database. You will need to arrange to have cervical screening with your GP or clinic
If we are told that you should not have screening, because you do not have a cervix, we will not invite you. This might be because you have had a hysterectomy, or because you are transgender.

UK Government website:
Cervical screening is available to women and people with a cervix aged 25 to 64 in England.

All eligible people who are registered with a GP (as female) automatically receive an invitation by mail. Trans men (assigned female at birth) do not receive invitations if registered as male with their GP, but are still entitled to screening if they have a cervix.
Current cervical screening IT systems are not able to include individuals registered with the NHS as ‘male’. Also, current registration systems are unable to record the gender category of ‘non-binary’. In these circumstances, the GP practice or a healthcare team managing gender reassignment should send screening invitations. PHE Screening has provided information on reducing cervical screening inequalities for trans people.

It all seems very long-winded and wordy for what should be a very simple matter?!

I have recently encountered this madness in the real world, not just online docs.
Phoned the GUM clinic, requesting an appointment to check a coil fitted following a c section, which I explained.

The receptionist asked after the normal personal details if my gender was male or female.
I replied “I do not have a ‘gender’, my sex is female”
“Oh”, she says…..”have you been of female sex since birth?”

@BeastOfBODMAS

I have recently encountered this madness in the real world, not just online docs. Phoned the GUM clinic, requesting an appointment to check a coil fitted following a c section, which I explained. The receptionist asked after the normal personal details if my gender was male or female. I replied “I do not have a ‘gender’, my sex is female” “Oh”, she says…..”have you been of female sex since birth?”

Brilliant. And you trust these people with your health care?!!!!

@stripeyflowers Nothing wrong with a heated debate. If I'm honest, I wasn't feeling ready for it because I don't normally participate in any discussions related to sex or gender issues. I know it can get heated and I am probably not educated enough in this topic to be a contributor. I am, however, into accuracy and clarity of language. And I suppose, very much like all of us, I would like to be referred to as who I am, I'll take woman, mother, female, biological woman, all of these - but not some artificially sounding linguistic monsters that lead to confusion and come across crass/offensive.

I do think this is a wider issue as well having read your posts. Being able to change a biological sex marker upon request and without transitioning biologically in real life will inevitably cause disservice to the individuals in question precisely because of the availability of screening, access to information and approach from medical professionals. This is just dangerous. If this is happening then the NHS must decide promptly to adopt clear language - based on biological sex only (male/female) throughout and approach of having patients registered as such unless and until they biologically transition to the other sex. And I can only imagine people undergoing transition will have their very own range of medical issues specific to them, so I absolutely think there should be notes made on NHS systems to recognise this and assist them medically in a way that is most suitable for them at any given stage.

This is a cancer that affects women and only women. Transmen are fully aware that they are female and have a cervix. The twisting of the word woman into an identity to accommodate gender nonsense is disgraceful.
If someone chooses to register with their GP as the opposite sex then frankly that is their own look out, as everyone knows that some medical issues are sex specific.

I have a problem with the phrase “people with a cervix” those “people” are biologically female. It would be impossible for them to be anything else - no matter what they might call themselves.
And I doubt anyone with a cervix has forgotten they own one.

I got to the point of being scared to ask for a female physiotherapist following my C-section last year because I didn't know how to ask not to offend the NHS workers in my local hospital. I was lucky to have been assigned a female physiotherapist anyway. NHS pages like this one really don't help me.

@PurplePansy05 Hi! The reason why it is now someone with a cervix, not woman is for inclusivity. It isn't an identity, I don't identify as someone with a cervix, it's something true about me, and by labelling it this way, it includes me as a non-binary person, you as a woman, but also some intersex people too! It is simply a way of grouping people together, and making it more clear about who can get cervical cancer. Hope this helps!

@ErynIsTrans Thanks for this. However, I am a woman. I am a woman biologically. I think of myself as a woman. I identify as a woman. I want other people to call me a woman. Am I not allowed? I don't believe my wish causes harm to you or anyone else?

[quote ErynIsTrans]@PurplePansy05 Hi! The reason why it is now someone with a cervix, not woman is for inclusivity. It isn't an identity, I don't identify as someone with a cervix, it's something true about me, and by labelling it this way, it includes me as a non-binary person, you as a woman, but also some intersex people too! It is simply a way of grouping people together, and making it more clear about who can get cervical cancer. Hope this helps![/quote]
Nobody “identifies as someone with a cervix” having a cervix is material reality. An immutable fact. Like being a woman.